Previous in Forum: Short Circuits in Encapsulated Transformers   Next in Forum: How to Calculate Busbar Ratings
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 54

Crystal Oscillator Noise Suppression

04/16/2009 2:17 AM

I have a microcontroller and an audio amplifier in the same PCB (200mm x 20mm) and i am worried that the crystal oscillator can cause more noise for my audio out. How can i avoid this? I heard that i can use an inductor to decouple Xtal noise but i have not found any example circuits i can choose from.

Any suggestions?

__________________
"I never expect to lose. Even when I'm the underdog, I still prepare a victory speech"
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/16/2009 2:58 AM

Do you mean the board already exists or you are dsigning it/laying it out?

The crystal osc should be built close to the micro with plenty of decoupling on the 5v rail anyway.
Hopefully, power, analogue and micro will have their own areas and supplies/ground tracks. The audio should certainly have its own power & ground tracking back to a nice fat reservoir cap on the power supply.
Ok clock noise can sometimes be a problem, but it's unlikely to effect the audio spectrum... even for a cat dog or bat.
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 54
#2
In reply to #1

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/16/2009 3:43 AM

the problem is i am using the same ground for all my components and the Audio circuit is supplied by 24V which also supplies the 5V regulator (linear) for the micro

__________________
"I never expect to lose. Even when I'm the underdog, I still prepare a victory speech"
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#3
In reply to #2

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/16/2009 4:32 AM

You should separate the ground tracks for digital and analogue, so that they only meet back at the resevoir capacitor, so that digital return currents are not flowing along the same return path as analogue currents especially near any pre-amp. Digital current spikes flowing in the ground track will cause small vltoges to appear along the track which will be picked up by the pre amp.
I suggest you do some some reading about pcb/circuit layout/interference etc, there is tons of stuff on the web.

If you suspect digital noise is getting back through the 5v regulator onto the 24v than add a couple of ferrite beads and some decent decoupling caps (big electrolytic for lf and small ceramics for hf.) between 24v and the regulator.
(You didn't answer my first Q).
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 54
#4
In reply to #3

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/16/2009 5:10 AM

I am still on the placement stage.... i do not want to route the board unless i'm certain about any problems that may occur. Thanks for your answers, they are very helpful.....but the ferrite beads might be too large. I am saving space here...

what if i add inductors between the 24V line and the pre amp?

__________________
"I never expect to lose. Even when I'm the underdog, I still prepare a victory speech"
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#5
In reply to #4

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/16/2009 6:56 AM

Ferrite beads are smaller than many inductors so I'm a tad comfused, they can also be slipped over component legs.. although I s'pose you are going all surface mount?
I googled pcb layout tips, there was loads of stuff... try 'ground track laypout' and stuff like that.
Good luck
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Budapest, Hungary, HA5YAR
Posts: 617
Good Answers: 14
#6
In reply to #5

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/17/2009 1:35 AM

Ferrite beads can make miracle... I think the source of the noise is not the clock oscillator but the microcontroller itself because the running program "divides" the clock frequency according the number of clock cycles necessary for the execution of the machine instructions or program loops. Decoupling will be necessary, with tantalum capacitors soldered directly to the power legs of the controller and ferrite beads. You also can interrupt the 5 V line leading to the controller and insert a small inductance.

__________________
Aged man is not old man...
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#7
In reply to #6

Re: crystal oscillator noise suppression

04/17/2009 3:50 AM

Ferrite beads can make miracle.

Indeed, I wear a necklace of ferrite beads, it keeps away vampires*, parasitic oscillations etc.

* But hopefully not those nice lady ones with the black negligees and the deep cleavage. Hmmm... come to think of it, maybe I'll leave it off tonight.
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
Good Answers: 2
#8

Re: Crystal Oscillator Noise Suppression

04/17/2009 10:27 AM

Consider adding a 1 Ohm resistor in series with the +dc supply to the analogue part of the circuit with a large value capacitor between this resistor and the dc return path on the circuit side of the resistor. The voltage drop across the resistor will probably not worry the analogue circuitry, but the presence of the resistor will make the capacitor much more effective at removing noise. If the current drawn is low enough to allow you to make the resistor larger the noise reduction will be even better. If you allow for the resistor in your layout you can always replace it with a zero ohm link if it turns out you don't need it later.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

pswengineer (1); Qqberci (1); tobzn (2); user-deleted-1105 (4)

Previous in Forum: Short Circuits in Encapsulated Transformers   Next in Forum: How to Calculate Busbar Ratings

Advertisement