A Clem Engine derived Fusion Turbine

Please see previous threads on CR4 regarding this and other "free energy" generation scams.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/6243/Any-input-on-the-Clem-engine-or-Freedom-of-Info-s-filed

Jack - An actual power engineer.

Oh, and "Crazy Fox" my post was for the benefit of others who may not be aware of the previous thread on the reposted subject.

Never quite got over "Free Energy"? I did not make the entry you are responding to for a discussion of the merits of "Free Energy" or the lack of same. The intent of my entry was the analysis of the elements of any possible engine function based upon what was claimed to be present. Having discovered viable elements those were mentioned and not a single reference to "Free Energy" other than to discount it as a viable element for comment.

Crazy Fox

So, for my personal edification, what exactly is a Clem engine???

The Richard Clem over unity engine

http://keelynet.com/energy/clem1.htm

It follows the classic free energy formula.

You are so right, Jack. It was a "Classic Free Energy Formula" however, the Houston Chronicle science desk confirmed the occurrence of the Clem Engine Saga and the fact it was Cavitation driven. That prompted my in depth analysis of the probable elements of the machine function. Perhaps Nuclear Physics is not your forte but in fact hydrogen fusion (ICCF) of the variety that Dr. Koldamasov demonstrated in the 2005 ICCF 12 Conference did drive the Clem Engine. I would encourage a more objective review of my original posts. I know most "Power Engineers" have scant time to devote to nonsense but there is some substance to this story worthy of investigation vs. total rejection.

Crazy Fox

Ignoring the original Clem engine free energy ramblings, and the free energy crowd that think they have built cold fusion generators in their water electrolysis machines, I was not aware of any cold fusion theory, experiment or demonstration that could be proven or reproduced by another independent group (certainly no device that ran on cold fusion).

To date I know of no real proof (keeleynet doesn't count) that cold fusion is even a real way of extracting energy, it has been hard enough even building a device to measure the reaction above the naturally occurring measurement and experimentation errors (even today with real scientists in real labs with the latest equipment). All experiments I am aware off showing over unity power generation have been either due to proven measurement errors or down-right fraud from over unity scammers. To date I have only found one reference that could confirm the reaction (which is a start, but a long way from an abundant fusion power source).

http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=IX0MXS0AKGLD0QSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=216200397

From what I have seen cold fusion is just a more complicated version of the "lets use magnets to make a perpetual motion motor without understanding how magnetism works". Until the reaction (there is a reaction going on) can be measured accurately, all the theories are just theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_nuclear_fusion

Theory preceded most of the machines we consider valid power sources today. I grant you the point that a rise of a couple of hundred degrees in a working fluid is not remarkable. In fact all of the excess heat is not from nuclear but the forced laminar shear flow of the Clem Engine vortex producing helical channels. Hydraulic machines often require cooling to dump this kind of excess heat from turbulent flow under pressure.

On initial observation the Clem Engine looks simple. Well, simply, it is not and multiple processes are combined to produce a power output. Kinda like the "Not well understood process" that keeps the world turning beneath your feet. At one time that was a theory too. Until someone had the audacity to say let there be light.

I would favor a more substantive critique in terms of science disproving what was last posted. I am not in the business of responding to ancient paradigms and dogma but rather clean energy science. For your information I do not suggest Cold Fusion but Chemical Assisted Nuclear Reaction as defined by the ICCF. Further the Oak Ridge National Laboratory is not a hack science lab. The concern expressed by the Defense Intelligence Agency is one based on science and not forum comments such as this.

I always wonder at the motive of a critic in discrediting the researcher rather than the science he presents in quantitative terms such as mathematical models. Granted I did not list all of my sources but then this is a forum for discussion. If indeed you are an engineer I would discuss some specifics should you care to do so.

I am not in the business of responding to ancient paradigms and dogma but rather clean energy science.

But you are inclined to mix real scientific developments with garbage pseudoscience and pseudoscience and over-unity websites (such as keelynet), hence the problem. Do you see where I am coming from? Garbage in - Garbage out.

If you want me to take you seriously you need to show me the evidence that the clem engine has in fact been scientifically proven to work in independent tests. If it did back in 2005 in Koldamasov's demonstration, then why can I not find any information on this incredible break thru.

Sorry but billions have been spent on cold fusion over the years, and there are so may 'cold fusion' or 'chemical assisted nuclear reaction' scams and pseudoscience devices out there on the market (and threads on CR4) that I would need to be shown overwhelming scientific evidence that the clem engine is not one of them (especially given the pseudoscience nature of Richard Clem).

I suggest you start a brand new thread on the subject of 'chemical assisted nuclear reaction' as this one has been tainted with pseudoscience. You will find people will be more willing to discuss real science and developments in this field, just make sure you don't post links to pseudoscience websites or the clem engine or you will lose all credibility.

I can see where your aversion for pseudoscience is at issue considering the original reporting of the Clem Engine function. Keeleynet.com Jerry Decker speculated about the driving force for the engine. Had he been a researcher as those at the Moscow Academy of Science he would not have made such a pseudoscience claim.

1. The Clem Engine ran for three years 1967-1970 in Dallas - Houston area.

2. Richard Clem did not know from whence the excess heat came and that fact got in the way of filing a patent.

3. Jim Ray of Micro-Combustion, Inc. worked with him on modified models that did not work as well because they lacked electrostatic charge due to the elimination of the open to case helical drag pump first stage.

4. Jim Ray's association with the Oak Ridge National Laboratory leaves their research suspect of Government Control of the Physics involved in the original neuclear heated version. Refinery cat cracking science probably tipped them to suspect a neuclear reaction as well as the Bendix Lab comments following a torque test in 1969.

5. You hear little about Chemical Assisted Neuclear Reactions in electrostatic charged jets because only the Kiev University lab and A.I. Koldamasov assisted by V.I.Vystotskii where any such tests conducted were restricted to Russian Journals and only brief and incomplete demonstrations made in Edmonton Canada. This brings me to the issue at hand with a development of this engine under Russian Control. Research may have continued at Idaho Falls neuclear test facility but I don't get involved in classified DoD research hacking in any way.

6. The only way to keep a level playing field in advanced propulsion and let the world know how the engine worked was to use this forum and others to expound on the science.

Fraud was not the intent of Keelynet.com or Jerry Decker. He simply overstated the how the engine worked in the absence of a more complete physics model. At issue is the fact the machine worked for three years. Jim Ray of Micro-Combustion, Inc. could relate this to you if you inquire........HOWEVER, THE DoD WOULD JUST AS SOON KEEP THIS TECHNOLOGY UNDER WRAPS AND GIVE IT PSEUDOSCIENCE STATUS. I believe that worked for you! It worked for everybody except those in Kiev.

I could be more specific with mathematical models but I suspect the DoD would frown on that or worse. So have a nice day!

From what I read at the provided link, I could see no reason why it would be considered an over unity device.

It is not an Over Unity Device!!!!!!! Forget Over Unity. I am not talking about the release of energy expected with the ITER projects around the world but only a rise in temperature of a "Working Fluid" of 100 - 150 degrees. Further the Clem Engine was first and foremost a Carnot/Rankine heat engine with vapor pressure driven hydraulic working fluid. A combined cycle Steam Engine if you will.

The excess heat from Cavitation was demonstrated by Dr. Koldamasov in 2005 at the ICCF 12 Conference using only machine oil. However if aqueous boric acid and sodium chloride are added at a ratio of 5% brine to machine oil the excess heat produced in cavitation is sufficient to sustain continuous machine operation as was the case with the Clem Engine.

It may be noted that due to preconceived notions as to what works and does not work in heat engine concepts, the introduction of cavitation driven heat engines is novel to say the least. Further, to have heat generated in a nuclear process in such well controlled conditions is just plain remarkable. It is small wonder why condensed matter fusion meets such strong opposition from commercial enterprise intent upon continuing their particular energy production. In fact, opposition is not strong enough a term.....hostile might be a better choice of words.

Aqueous boric acid? What!?

This forum doesn't have opposition or hostility, we just want some real science. Show us the equations, maybe a diagram... Go ahead we can handle it, we're engineers, mathematicians and physicists...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

The design parameters are not defined in the Keelynet.com article beyond a basic drawing and description of the machine function. For the electrostatic calculations the Poisson-Bolzmann equation may be run for laminar shear charge exchanges and the potentials assuming anionic operation and an ungrounded - charged upper case and a grounded lower case separated by isolation. The cavitation implosion calculations can be done using the Maxwell-Bolzmann distribution equation. Dr. Koldamasov, in 2005, cast doubt upon his demonstration by not supplying solutions for the above calculations. It would be useless for me to provide solutions which are design parameter specific. I am not providing proof! I am discussing an analysis of an observed functional device that others, including Dr. Koldamasov, have provided. Note that no one is handing out "Cook Book" answers to patented devices or the method by which they get energy out of this machine.

One other fine point, which many would overlook, is the quantum effects of vortex fluid flow and how it impacts electrostatic charging that is not covered in the Poisson-Bolzmann equation. I am not going to discuss quantum physics of this vortex/molecular space/time distortion and how electrostatic charging is enhanced by vortex flow of fluids. And in case you are wondering .....water is slightly magnetic.

Water micelles with double shells (- charge outer, + charge inner and inner water dipole made more tight by the boron/hydrogen bond) behave like crystals and the morphology of the micelles is elongated by electrostatic charge potentials. This is important when calculating the kinetics of implosion in the Maxwell-Bolzmann distribution equation.

The resulting short duration plasma (1-2ns) first pulse and second pulse (1ns) and third reforming of fractions (salt crystals, water vapor and oil fractions) takes place as the implosion occurs in the reaction stream (downstream from the nozzles). I have about exhausted the details of my analysis at this point. I am sure, that with your expertise of design and physics, you can come up with some convincing figures.

Crazy Fox

I've got it! This must be related to the Retro Encabulator!

I really doubt the presence of nuclear fusion! A chemical reaction, perhaps. But forget the fusion possibility.

Why? Perhaps because of the plasma temperatures required to fuse hydrogen with a boron proton.

Keep in mind that the kinetics are not spherical in the Maxwell-Bolzmann distributions calculations. That fact alone accounts for the required heat that most overlook in making the calculations. Chemical bonds are critical in these calculations however, once the plasma is formed at the "thermolic center of mass" of these unique micro micelles fusion does occur. Inertial Confined Electrostatics of the hydrogel micro matrix is in miniature a replication of what has been done before. I would recommend looking at what Dr. Lerner is doing at the Em2 Fusion.com website. Just think micro and fluid matrix with tiny plasmas.

Plasma or not, you are totally discounting the sheer immensity of not only the electromagnet force, but the extreme closeness nuclei have to achieve before the strong-nuclear force can take over.

Scientists have been running very pure and highly controlled plasmas for years, and yet their best efforts have failed to produce an more than a few, single fusion events.

There are a few other known aspects to oil and fluid dynamics to be considered. Hydrogels containing boron in the solution loose viscosity as a function of pressure. The tapered open to case helical channels in the Clem Engine facilitate hydrostatic pressure driving force as a function of vapor phase initial expansion along with centrifugal forces to the nozzles. It is to be noted that vapor phase initial expansion is a function of temperature increase derived from forced laminar shear flow. Vapor phase implosion does not occur until the pressure drop at the exit of a stream of hydrogel from the nozzles. Question: What do you think happens to the charges in the water micelles as they implode with given inner and outer shell disparity? I will offer this: 100 million Kelvin for Deuterium-Tritium fusion and only 1 billion Kelvin for Hydrogen-Boron fusion.

I billion Kelvin, ridiculous, right? Well, yes at certain scales but at molecular scale in short duration implosion pulse of super heated plasma it happens. How? It is the level of charge potential disparity and the charge potential total from surrounding hydrogel matrix that produces the super hot plasma necessary for Hydrogen-Boron fusion (A miniature ....molecular size EMC2 Fusion reactor if you will). How does the case survive such temperature? The plasma never gets close to the case in the stream flow and is of such short duration that the fractions of brine salts absorb almost all of the heat and neutron radiation but not stopping X-rays. Heat is transferred to the oil by salts as they recombine with condensing water vapor in the reforming of the hydrogel.

This is followed by a return flow under negative pressure via a Francis turbine (like an automotive torque converter) that cools and condenses the vapors and fractions and reassembles the hydrogel.

Has anyone actually discovered the presence of free neutrons or X-rays???

Yes. Extra heat and limited neutron radiation due to boron content and lots of X-rays.

Radiation blanket can be made of cheap lead oxide paint saturated blanket and foam polyethylene (nitrogen filled) sandwiched together.

3He stays in solution as a dissolved gas and adds to further reactions. The closed loop working fluid is only slightly radioactive as compared with salt water used without boron added that has much stronger neutron radiation.

If you read Russian, the Russian Academy of Sciences Moscow published findings of a Koldamasov run test. This may have become state controlled information by now but that is where I read about it.

This is all low yield fusion and involves only a few nuclei but is continuous and creates sufficient heat to sustain the device operation and torque output.

Dr. Bussard, now deceased, set up EMC2 Fusion as a non profit organization to do Polywell reactor research less government funding on a Navy Contract. The "Working Fluid (Hydrogel) Matrix performs like the Polywell reactor in miniature in the way confinement and plasma are achieved but much simpler.

Ok. So what you're saying is fusion is occurring, but this is all second-hand information...

When it comes to the internet, the adage "Don't believe everything you read" should be written in forty foot high letters, in bold, and underlined!!!

I am aware of the extreme temperatures and pressures that can be developed by the bursting of nano-bubbles, but these don't produce sufficient heat. Some hope suggests that some sort of catalyst may be needed to help the fusion process (iridium is a possibility). However, there has been no real progress with these processes... Of course, that doesn't include the Mad Hatter's Library (AKA the Internet).

Look upon the double shell micelles in the hydrogel matrix as capacitors that upon vapor phase increase their capacitance until they break down and implode. Electrostatic initiated plasma is confined to the dipole of the central (inner micelles) upon implosion and the kinetics along the elongated plasma to thermolic center of mass becomes hot enough to initiate hydrogen-proton fusion. The flow of electrons from the surrounding oil and double shell micelles are focused along the path of the imploding mass of hydrogen plasma and the boron proton fuses at the center of mass. This is caused, in part, due to the initial implosion of the outer negatively charged shell and the exposure of the positively charged inner shell to the surrounding negatively charge oil and outer shells of the hydrogel matrix. This his how the second pulse of the implosion happens and is far hotter than the first pulse. It is referred to as electrostatic confined fusion. The reaction sequence is described at the EMC2 Fusion.org website.

In this case, one is not dealing with a simple nano-bubble matrix but a uniquely confined double shell nano-bubble matrix comprised of Aqueous Boric Acid and Salt water inside a non conducting oil hydrogel flow. This combination produces sufficient heat for fusion. A chemically engineered working fluid provides only the environment for fusion but the Electrostatic initiated plasma causes the fusion at the nano "Pit" of the micelles. Like the "Pit" of a nuclear warhead.

That is basically what happens in the Polywell Reactor but at a nano scale. Sorry you don't read Russian or you could see the test results for yourself. Wait long enough and a Russian or Chinese sub will arrive at the nearest harbor and demonstrate the functionality of their version of the Clem Engine derived fusion power plant.

Second hand information is what the world deals with mostly. Alice in Wonder Land Tea Party press releases may explain why so many go MAD! I would strongly recommend some first hand information be gained by performing the Koldamasov experiment with the Brine in Oil solution for starters. Once having that first hand information one could build the little hydraulic turbine as outlined and then the first hand results using the Brine in Oil solution could be published so all others could have more second hand information. How is that for full circle?

The Oak Ridge National Laboratory proved cavitation plasmas do indeed produce X-Rays and 4HE in doped water. See Science Week 2002 March 8 Article. Dr. Vladimir I. Vysotskii of Kiev University will lecture the American Chemical Society Conference in San Francisco March 21-25, 2010 regarding Water Jet Cavitation producing X-Rays and 4He.

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/2009DIA-08-0911-003.pdf

Update on Working fluid for the Clem Engine: Water doped with 5-10% by weight NaBH4 (sodium Borohydried) in a water oil emulsion where water comprises 10-20% of the working fluid and where the oil is biodiesel bunker oil non conducting. Sodium Borohydried is priced at $52.00 per lb. There is also a new post by Jerry Decker of Keelynet.com at:

http://www.newilluminati.blog-city.com Article titled "The Clem Engine Reborn.."

MIT school of engineering is currently investigating relationship of Koldamasov 2005 demonstration in Edmonton Canada with that of the theories about the Clem Engine.

There is ample data to show that in fact Fusion is part of the mechanism to produce excess heat and X-Rays plus 4He in hydraulic flows containing water in polar fluids. I am confident that if you follow my suggestions at the end of the new Illuminati post you will find the claims are justified.

The article you provided the link to on the Clem engine was just full of Pseudoscience BS (especially the last half of the article) and nothing new in the way of actual verifiable proof since I last investigated the Clem claims.

Do you have any links to actual verifiable third-party tests of the Clem engine?

The "Clem Engine" was used as an asphalt emulsifier in early 1970's Texas during which time it would run without external power applied. Keelynet.com (See Jack's post) published the story prompting wide spread analysis of what actually drove the engine. My determination was based on solid science that has taken place since the original Keelynet.com article was published. Richard H. Clem converted the drag pump (engine) to run a small car (quite crude in many respects).

It turns out to be a unique form of heat engine that gets heat from hydrogen fusion.

Just try to patent it though. NRC license.....forget it! However Ethanol substituted for water will work with boron and table salt added. No fusion but heat from cavitation and vapor expansion to drive the hydraulic process. Some additional heat may be needed via this ethanol solution added to turbine oil.

Crazy Fox

UPDATE: Clem Engine physics confirmed.

Dielectrophoretic migration of charges from non polar nonconducting oil to aqueous NaBH4 (Sodium Borohydried) micelles (4-6 nanometers) at cavitation implosion plasma formation unbalances the normally balanced plasma causing r-f microwave resonance. The resonance creates a cluster of double shelled plasmas with the core plasma forming a hole allowing B11-p+H fusion. This IEC (Inertial Electrostatic Confined) plasma sequence takes place in the jet from the nozzles by the hundreds raising the temperature of the dissociated fractions of oil and water by +150 degrees F. The expansion of the dissociated fractions drives the working fluid to power the otherwise hydraulic engine.

The reaction is aneutronic fusion (See Focus Fusion website) with x-rays and 3He as ASH.

Dr. Kenneth Suslick University of Illinois at Urbana and Dr. George Miley of the same University are good sources of information for further study. Dr. Suslick is the source for information about cavitation whilst Dr. Miley is the source for IEC Fusion research.

This latest post is based upon research and improved design to date. Note: The Russian submarine Sarov just completed sea trials to test this engine. I would expect new fusion power plants for retrofit of the Russian fleet and new ships yet to be built. See the new appropriations by the Duma for modernization of the Russian millitary.

My sources tell me the Russian submarine 'Sarov' is powered by diesel engines and an auxiliary nuclear reactor. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

Care to provide any links that validate your rather extreme claims?

Jack - An actual Naval military contractor also

Your are correct but take note the reactor under test was not defined. Herein is the rub. Digging deeper you will find that a variant of the Kaluga 7 combined cycle steam turbine is the reactor under test. From the outside it is a spit case design with an added downstream reaction flywheel and return flow hydraulic turbine. The working fluid is deuterated salt water (sodium chloride and borax solution) in mineral oil. The ratio of water to oil in 1:10. In function it is for all intents and purposes a Clem Engine thus configured. It was convenient to do things this way and it was simply called a "Stem Turbine". Funny thing though....Not one steam source to drive it except the one I mention above. The Yard birds were familiar with the Kaluga basic design. This was a clever way to avoid western observers from suspecting new engineering. The Project Pheonix Program took 20 years from back engineering from the Dallas epic story.

Your are correct but take note the reactor under test was not defined.

<sigh> What is not defined (by you) are any links to validate your latest comments since the pseudoscience ones of post #24. Please provide some as this subject is hardly mainstream science and extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

The Project Pheonix Program took 20 years from back engineering from the Dallas epic story.

What, the Project Phoenix SETI program. Could you perhaps also explain this too.

My source spoke Russian, do you? Further Project Pheonix was carried out at the Sarov Institute from 1984-Present not the SETI program. Ask the Russians about all of this and risk their rath. Otherwise I suggest you study quantum physics awhile and rethink your rather negative opinion which, by the way, shows your lack of depth on this particular subject.

Read Russian Trade Journals and listen to blogs from yard workers. The Russian are full of good science. Just ask the Captain of the Sarov about all of this. He is very generous with information about the project!

Read Russian Trade Journals and listen to blogs from yard workers. The Russian are full of good science. Just ask the Captain of the Sarov about all of this.

I am patient, but not that patient (especially given your previous pseudoscience 'proof' and comments on the subject). Besides my 'Russian' friends are army, not navy.

Again, can you please provide any links at all to back up your new claims and evidence?

_{Jack - Still here and asking questions to gain insight on what appears to still be a lost cause}

Whoops! I think I just found it. Yep, here it is, your lost cause... You're not getting off the hook that easy. This is the most fun I've had reading CR4 is a long time.

One might consider investigating the Flash Steam Generator/Reactor built by the Africantov Design Bureau that runs in tandem with a Kaluga KTP 7i condensing steam turbine. The AIP steam generator uses the Clem Engine principle of cavitation in fluid jets where plasma clusters become internally resonant at micro wave frequency. Only a small Alpha radiation and some low energy x-rays are produced. The submarine "Sarov" test platform is testing this concept along with super cavitating bubble injection into the bow pressure wave for greater efficiency and speed. Closed cycle Flash Steam is super compact and adds little to the KTP 7i form factor where engineering space is very limited in Project 636 derived designs including the latest Lada Class boats.

Whilst bloggers BS more inventive minds find solutions based upon research of A.I. Koldamasov, Karnorev and the Clem Engine Concept. There may be a "Brain Drain" from Russia but there the machines that work get applied as a practicle matter.