Well Water Problems

If I were in your position, I would install a filter system at the source, before the split to the two houses.

Our water here has a lot of iron, manganese and sulfur. Used a permanganate filter system for years, it was okay but presently using a berm system that is even better. It doesn't add anything into the water afaik but just filters the minerals out.

what is berm system? who is the supplier? any web site info?

sorry, I find it is spelled "birm system" . as shown with others here:

http://www.abundantflowwater.com/html/iron__sulfur.html

People who sell them in your area should also be able to test your water to see which kind you need. Funny they don't mention manganese for the birm type..

Basic explanation of the mechanism (as given to me) is that the dissolved minerals adhere to the filter material and are trapped. afaik it is a greensand filter. It seems to work for me.

http://www.abundantflowwater.com/html/birm_filter.html

Dave, Please know that the anode rods are sacrificial by design. They are intended to corrode first so that the walls of your water heater do not corrode as fast. Corroded anodes are normal!!

If you are concerned about the chemistry of the water attacking the copper piping, sample the stuff and get it analyzed properly for some of the known compounds that attack copper. (Manganese sulfide?) Often these are biological in origin. Also, go to:

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com

Here they offer an expensive ~($500.00) electrically powered anode that may solve the odor and formation of corrosive compounds in the hot water system.

MDOT

Reading extensively on this link provided an answer to a similar problem for me. I had solved it, but did not know there was a simpler method. I had a foul water smell issue in a house that was unoccupied for a period (I used the clorox instead of the hydrogen peroxide, for those who read the link).

The water is provided by the town main supply, but on inquiry I found we were now getting well water instead of melted snow/creek water. I ended up doing most of the steps listed intuitively, but will now include the retrofit steps on the next visit.

Thank you, CJM

Hello CJMcGill,

Just to say I am pleased you have your problem sorted!

Take care..................

bb

the water is too soft. Soft water can be very corrosive. You might wish to have Culligan or Nalco consult with you on the best treatment system to use. The 'sulfur' is I presume 'rotten egg' smell. You might need to go to an aeration basin pre-treatment to remove the H2S,

Also have the grounding of the water heaters and house electrical systems checked out and check to be sure the powerline 'Neutral" is really at zero volt potential to true 'earth' You may have a ground loop which is causing current to flow through the plumbing and eat up the zinc/magnesium anodes. You may have to install electrical isolation unions on the water and gas lines to the water heaters to stop the galvanic current.

Your location may have poor soil conductivity and result in a high resistance ground --those situations can usually be 'managed' by either longer grounding rods or keeping the soil moist around the grounding rods. Low flow irrigation emitters (0.5 gph) work good for that purpose.

I would consider 3 to 5 years the life span of any water heater.

Copper should be fine for 10 to 15 years.

JL Mealer

http://mealercompanies.com

I was referring to an instance with really bad acidic water. 10-15 years was more or less what an iron pipe would last in the area where I have build many homes and have replaced many sets of pipes.

I've never had a problem with copper, but this northern Arizona water eats up galv quickly. I stand corrected, but then again, I really don't know what his "bad water" is capable of.

Made in USA is the ONLY way to go.

JL Mealer

America's Next major Automaker
http://mealercompanies.com

You won't see the anode since it is inside the tank. If You look at the top of the tank You will see a hex shaped plug. under this plug is the anode. it is factory installed and nearly impossible to take out. Some people take this rod out to rid the smell of "rotten eggs" but doing this also voids any guaranties.

oilcan13

Yes, I remember the electrode way back when I had an electric water heater, in a different house. I just looked again, and there are three openings on the top: cold in, hot out, and flue - nothing else. No access doors on the side either.

Hello dkwarner,

I sincerely hope you are fine?

I note your remark on copper pipe. I have noticed 'old' copper pipe lasts longer than a relatively recent replacement. I think it may be because it is thicker?

We replaced the original copper pipe which had been installed over 40 years prior. The new pipe was nowhere near as 'heavy' and after about 12 years it started gitting 'pin hole' leaks........

Just a thought.

bb

H2S corrodes almost any kind of metal or alloy used in domestic engineering. First it´s important to know if the H2S comes from the biodegradation of sulfates in your water, meaning you have a lot of bacteria in your well and your pipes (layers on the walls) which produce H2S which is oxidized in contact with air to sulfuric acid which doubbles the corrosion effect - or the H2S has a geological reason. In the first case you may add calciumnitrate and/or FeCl2 in the well (controlled by sensors in the pipes near the house so that you have no nitrates and H2S in the end anymore) to shift the anaerobic metabolism of the bacteria to aerobic where no H2S is formed or if the H2S-concentration is not too high you may also add peroxides (H2O2) or ozone to oxidize the H2S (dosing quantity is controlled by sensors, too). In this case you must control the pH (might be too low = corrosive) of your water and maybe adjust with lime-suspension or NaOH. In the second case you may also use the peroxide/ozone-system or as already stated here in the formum, an aeration system where you strip out the H2S.

or too high either is bad

Deal with the H2S asap, http://mattson.creighton.edu/H2S/H2S_Info.html

http://www.equinox-products.com/MetalMaster.htm

Add 'free lime' will about pH .73 -.78 causes a light coating inside the copper piping allow this about 6 months then curtail, copper pipping treated thus will out last you.

Normal anode life time is equal about 6-8 months, consider replace two heaters with one; include a circulate system (google 'hot-water lobster), plus a regular size water heater as back up.

GA and I gave you one. I was thinking of the potential use of a chlorination system but I see you recommended it first. Definitely the way to go.

Hello aqua doc,

Just to say a big thank you for the GA! Take care.

bb

GA babybear! The Chlorination/Carbon Filter system added to my water conditioning system about 8 years ago solved my sulphur problem.

hello bb,

Quite the tap of knowledge eh!

Am curious if you've considered use of a Manganese dioxide to filter the Sulphide? This may offer another process to recycle alkaline batteries

Hi wire,

Really appreciate your nice post, thanks. Not sure about a 'tap of knowledge' though?????

Some questions I can answer because I have researched them, others I have just had experience.

I have not thought of Manganese Dioxide, but will look into it more now! ,,,,,,,,,,

However, you have thrown your hat into the ring and mentioned it now, so I will not be surprised if you personally get more requests for help!

I hope you are well, and thanks again for your really nice text.

It is the exact opposite to a post I got from a member on this or a different thread, I am not sure. He chose to mention one aspect of a post from me to help, which made me look as if I did not understand the thread at all. I mentioned using bottled water or rather have a local water company supply bottled water if 'clean' water was not available. It was just a small part of the post and posts I sent, and kinda hurts to have an almost irrelevant part of one post highlighted as silly.

Anyway, I have put the 'world to rights' now, so I will say bye bye for now my friend.

Take care..............

bb

Hi wire,

Hope all is well with you?

The 'Manganese treatment of Sulphide' does seem to be a pretty good system.

http://www.crystalquest.com/Manganese,%20Iron,%20and%20Hydrogen%20Sulfide%20water%20filter.htm .

Because of your mention I am pasting the address of a site which does lots of different combination of Manganese and other filter agents.

I recommend this site........... THOUGH I HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE SITE!

Take care...........

bb

Hi bb,

You will find this very interesting; it is an exhaustive read though very informative and a revealing exposure too

Hi wire,

Hope all is alright at your end?

It is kinda warm here in Europe!

Many thanks for the detailed piece on Manganese! I have saved the page as I did with several other pages on the thread, thanks again.

bb

Hi all,

Just a few words to say many thanks for the 'GA's'!

I am trying to get back into the swing of helping people and these GA's kinda show I am doing something right?

bb

I suppose that you ozonate for microbe protection. Ozone is the best microbicide you can use but it is highly reactive, i.e., much more so than dissolved oxygen that everyone is known by everyone. Under no circumstances should you introduce ozonated water into your water system until it has been depleted to less than 0.1ppm and preferably less than the 0.025 to 0.05ppm range. Ozone is highly effective at 0.25ppm with a half life of approximately fifteen minutes , this means that ozone will be depleted by 50% every fifteen minutes, depending upon water chemistry. ... The pH (or alkalinity) is one of the variables that affect ozone half life. However, you should also understand that pH also has a significant corrosive effect on copper, i.e. the higher pH the more soluble copper becomes (and the better corrosion protection for iron).Also, if you carry the pH too high in high hardness waters, you will plate out deposits that will plug all lines.

All water heaters had zinc anodes installed during manufacture at one time, but I'm nor sure about today.

Evidently, you are using softeners because you have a hard water problem. Softeners produce low hardness while raising the pH, So you may want to consider using a RO (reverse osmosis system)

your water is too soft. it is collecting mineral as it travels through your pipes. and what is the ph of your water? you can have the softest water in the world but if you don't have it at the right ph it will do that too. also figure out the LSI of your water. that should be a slightly positive number if it is negative the water is very carrosive as well. you are dealing with both sides of the scale with the ph. to low is carrosive, but too high its caustic, and caustic will do a lot of damage as well. and the hardness .63 .63 what, grains, ppm, mg/L which is the same as ppm.

I will first state that if you are experiencing sulfur problems you will also be under the influence or sulfate reducing bacteria or SRB. The injection of ozone or other oxidizers prior to filtration and/or contact is normally done after the water has been pumped from the well. Ozone is a powerful oxidizer but is very difficult to get the high demand dosage that H2S will impart. Ignoring the treatment of the direct source well will result in ever increasing levels of H2S production. The demand for oxidation will only increase with time and volume of water pumped. I would suggest you rethink the methodology.

Consider hydrogen peroxide (food grade only) and run a tube from your house out to the well and into the bottom of the well. Use a chemical pump to inject hydrogen peroxide directly into the well. Once peroxide is injected into the well, it will prove itself to be very toxic to the SRB (the are obligate anerobes and cannot survive in oxygen environments). Peroxide breaks down to form water and oxygen.in chemical form. The injection of peroxide is an easy and relatively inexpensive cure for most nuisance bacteria and is particularly good against SRB. Check with a company called MWT at www.mwater.ca. William Vander Wilp works for this company and can provide literature on the use of peroxide in well environments. Testing for residual peroxide is simple with test strips.

You may want to test the water as untreated and have them design a system for you.The type of filtration that follows this procedure can be determined. Also consider dielectric unions at the HWT.

Cheers

Also note that the soils in some parts of CA are very caustic. This condition varies greatly from place to place in CA. Contact your USDA Soil COnservation district for more information. This condition is so bad in some places the water districts use brass fire hydrants and put parts of the water systems above ground.

Hey Dave,

The old anode rod was doing a better job than the zinc. By extending the life of the anode, you are sacrificing some other part of your system (there must be some steel in the system somewhere). Stick with the more anodic Magnesium preferentially over a zinc rod to extend the life of the hot water heaters & non-yellow-metal valves in the house in the meantime.

Hello, I had really bad iron and other mineral problems with my 2 water wells in North Georgia as well. I installed a Rain Soft brand water filter and softener and It has been running very good for over 5 years now with no trouble except I have to add salt every few weeks. I am sure they are many brands of water softener/filters on the market but I like the Rain Soft brand because it has a lifetime warranty on everything except the fill (the fill is supposed to be good for 6 years if I remember correctly) the water in the well I use the most was tested to have high iron and it was terrible on hot water heaters as well as made nasty stains on every sink, tub and toilet in the house. Since I installed the system I have had no more problems with the water and appliances.

Dump those tank type heaters and install flash boilers.

In addition to getting rid of water storage chemistry problems it will also greatly reduce the cost of propane since you won't be heating stored water.

j.