Boat Trailer Wheels

Yes, But it involves backing the trailer towards the water real fast and then stopping suddenly before the wheels hit the water, if all goes well (and you have remembered to remove the tie-downs) the boat will go sailing thru the air and land in the water. A successful launch, well in theory anyway .

Better to not worry about the salt water and just wash the boat and trailer down thoroughly with clean water when you are finished. Have done that with every boat we have had and never had to replace a single trailer or wheel due to corrosion.

Sometimes prevention is better than cure, but in this case all it takes is a bit of elbow-grease.

I should have been more clear. Meant wheel bearings only. sorry

Del

I still stand by my comments (well the helpful ones anyway).

Thanks jack Stay engaged

Del

A properly maintained wheel bearing assembly will not let water in nor hot grease out.

Like the gentleman before me said "rinse the saltwater off at the end of the day" and it will go a long way to lowered maintenence.

Make sure you inspect the wheel assemblies before, during, and after each trip. By this I mean look for rust/corrosion, leaking grease or oil, rust on the end cap, or a leaking grease fitting (if any), as well as loose hardware or play in the hub assembly.

Annual tear down and inspection should be a minimum service schedule for infrequent usage, where as quarterly would be recommended for frequent or even daily use.

Got a 72 Chevy Blazer has the same oil and the same bearings in the differential. it came with. Whats different?

Granted I don't run it in the water much

Del

the rapid cooling of bearings when immersed in water tries to suck in water therefore shorting baring life . sealed bearings or good maintenance ie. packing with grease regularly should prevent this .

Hudson: Sooooooooooo You are saying that if one could keep the water out, then there would be no need for maintenance?

Del

Yep - you've got all the right ingredients above, and the main points are:

1-keep 'em full before

2-keep 'em clean afterward

and if I may add a recommendation I've made here before to other corrosion questions, spray a coating of CorrosionX on anything and everything that will be immersed, but isn't "seen" by the admiring public. We used it at the boat company for whom I was the designer all over the place, particularly on electrical connections like trailer light plugs and battery terminals.

_{Disclosure: I have no (0) stock or referral rewards with the above company, and was not paid to write this post, but wish I was...;)}

There is no such thing as foolproof, since fools are so resourceful.

However, for boat trailer wheelbearings I have found a product called "Bearing Buddy" does a wonderful job. This device consists of a spring loaded diaphram and O ring seals, which keep the grease inside the trailer axle hub under slight pressure and compensates for expansion and contraction due to rapid tempeature changes such as when dunking hot axles into cold water. I have been using these on several boat trailers for over 20 years and have not lost a set of bearings yet due to salt water corrosion, even with high use (daily during summer and several times a month during winter). I believe that they are available from any trailer supply company for about $25.00 per axle.

Foolproof: Very interesting word. Kinda like "If" If you had a oil bath hubs where the inside pressure was always positive to the outside. Regardless of temperature, water pressure or any influences, would that be foolproof for keeping the water out?

Buddy Buddying, it would not be fair to mention them in the same breath without also including leaking ,sticking blown seals and knock offs. I classify them as "Band Aid". Lost four wheels using them Know many more with the same experience. They don't keep the water out regardless.

Stay with me on this lets' focus on the root cause. water in the bearing.

Object: Dependability, maintenance free and a life time warranty

Del

Make sure to have greasable hubs with the zerk fittings and like what has been mentioned already, keep them full of grease. Also, don't pump them too full or else you'll blow out the rear grease seal. You'll know if that happens because you'll see the grease come out the backside.

Also:

- If you dunk after a long haul you need to monitor them more carefully (hot bearings will suck in water when cooled rapidly as already mentioned)

- If you use it in saltwater, you should wash it all down after each use.

- If you trailer alot, rebuild your hubs like once a year. You'll see if you get water in there if your grease is milky. If you only trailer short distances a few times a year with no highway I wouldn't worry about it. Occasionally lift each axle to check for play.

I understand, but your suggestions are all "Band Aid" treatments. Lets get back to the root cause of the problem. "water in the bearings". Why should a trailer boat owner put up with this problem. Why hasn't some one come up with the prevention so we don't do all this unnecessary maintenance. You don't do this on your car differential do you? Think about it.

Del

I've found bearing buddies to work well, but there is a flaw with the design of trailer hubs re submersion. The seals are oriented to keep grease in and not water out. I'd like to see double seals, one spring-in one spring-out, in combination with bearing buddies, or similar system that keeps the grease under pressure. Then the likelihood of getting water in would be very low.

Your on the right track Ken: Your saying stop the water from getting in and stop the grease from getting out by the use of a double lip seal? Correct?

Del

Yes, I think a good double lip seal (or two seals installed back to back) on the back of the hub and something like Bearing Buddies on the front would work well. I've noticed that Northern equipment carries Tie Down Turbo Lube hubs which are oil bath type, which I would think are pretty well sealed. They also have a Kodiac pro lube kit that includes seals and oil -- looks like it might work well also. Both have clear windows, so if there were water contamination , you could see it (cloudy oil) before it did much damage.

It would be a fairly good system except, the last time i talked to them, were still getting water in the hubs.

Here is what I am going to do.

1- make a 3/16 bypass under the seal. @ top of spindle

2-run a 1/4 tube up to a small reservoir to vent the hub that I will fill with lube oil.

3- run a another line down to a "divers bell" mounted at the Axel level.

4- Divers bell is final outlet of the vent and the source of pressure to compensate the oil pressure when backed in the water.

5- Torque the bearings to 5 ft lbs.

Advantage:

No excessive pressure build up, no maintenance, Reliable just like your car

Sounds great! A nicely engineered solution. As long as the tube fittings don't leak, your system should work very well, with your bearings feeling quite pampered.

Ken I have one and it does work great. A leak in the tubing doesn't matter, the hub is still full of lube and will not have any effect on the bearings, just don't back it into the water till you fix it, simple.

You can see one at www.co-engineering.net

Del

"You don't do this on your car differential do you?"

Yes you do! If you dunk a diff in water it will get in. They have breather tubes to account for the expansion of gas and gear lube. If a hot diff gets dunked it will draw water in the breather. The solution all the off road guys (and gals) use who don't want to keep changing fluid or diffs is to add an extension onto the breather to keep it above the water line.

I don't know, repacking bearings carefully takes 15min a wheel and new bearings takes another 10min on that. To me that is confidence my $60k of boat is on a reliable trailer. Even if the seals were foolproof, I'd still open them up to check periodically. Multiple axle trailers take a beating especially during cornering.

Guest: Clearly you don't understand the principals of a divers bell. Go back and do your home work. Then you will see the errors of your comments. Or You can ask me specific questions and I will reply.

I know a guy that backed his trailer so far off a ocean beach to retrieve his boat, that he got water in the diff. of his brand new truck. If he had a divers bell on that vent line, that would not have happened. Brakes, another issue.

Del

So obviously you want to put divers bells on your hubs!

Show me an OTC "divers bell" for use on a diff. OEM diffs have some sort of pressure valve that works perfect for normal use. ...but when wheeling will quickly become contaminated with fines and leak. A check valve would not work for obvious reasons. The failsafe solution "everyone" uses is to add extension tubes on their breathers.

Going back to your original question the answer in in front of you, if you just open your eyes! I've got a real stiff consultant fee. I need it to feed the twin HP850SCi stearndrives.

Guest: You got me on the HP850SCi and i think you meant Stern drive ?

Any way can not have any fun if the wheels come off before you get there.

Divers bell gets mounted in a protected area at bearing level. They are self cleaning and not a problem.

What kind of Boat?

Del

Perhaps you don't know what Dellori means by "diver's bell". In his system, he uses inverted reservoirs, open at the bottom, with the top plumbed to the hub. They, of course have only air in them as the trailer enters the water. They are at axle height, and work like a diver's bell, in that water cannot enter, because the air above it is trapped by the plumbing to the hubs. (The same principal is at work in an inverted glass pressed into water in a sink -- water cannot enter) These diver's bells are mounted at hub height so the air pressure above the water level in the bell is equal to water pressure at the hubs, no matter what the depth of the trailer wheel. Thus, the pressure inside the hub is always at least equal to the water pressure, and water cannot enter, under reasonable conditions. Sure, given very leaky seals, water will come in and air will bubble out, but given even reasonably good seals it cannot, particularly because the air pressure reinforces the seals action. In his system, with remote oil reservoirs, if there are seal leaks, they will be immediately obvious. Therefore, if the oil level in the reservoir is OK, the seals are OK, and you can safely put the boat in the water, knowing that water cannot enter your hubs.

Even good seals are one-way devices unless that are specifically designed not to be, with equal double lips (with lip springs) facing outward. Ordinary trailer hub seals are not like this, so water comes in if the pressure inside the hub is less than water pressure at hub height. (This problem is what drives the Bearing Buddy industry.) Simply venting the hubs to atmosphere through a tube that is well above waterline does not cure the problem. For a boat trailer, this would be anything but fail safe. (For four wheeling and an occasional dunk, they would work, but if your axles are under 3' of water for long, the pressure is too high to keep the seals from leaking.) Pressurizing that vent line to water pressure at the height of the wheel hub does cure the problem. That's Dellori's idea. He would be very unwise to pay your consulting fee, because your suggestion would make his system worse, rather than better.

I've had good luck with Bearing Buddies, (which pressurize the hub through spring tension) but many others have not. So for those people, Dellori's solution would be worth considering.

Ken; Hats off to you Ken. You are one of very few that who truly understand it. You did a better job than me. I saved the best for the last. Don't forget to add the specific gravity of oil and water together for the net pressure inside the hub. And remember it is proportional. Also done with no moving parts.

Thanks

Del

A dreadfully simple solution is to seal the hubs watertight with o-rings or whatever, drill a hole in the back of the axle and fit an air line nipple, run a tube up to the top of the winch neck, where it won't go underwater, loop it back to stop water running in and fit a cheap fuel filter to keep the crap out. All Fixed!

This is the system four wheel drives use.

Very interesting: When you say "drill a hole" does that mean a bypass around the seal? When one thinks it through, sounds like the same concept. Allows for venting yet keeps water out by all ways keeping the vent above water level correct?

Del

yes that is it. the whole is to allow air in and out of the hub. by drillin a small hole down the middle of the axle stub the gas can vent form teh small end down to th erear of the housing where you can place the nipple to attach the pipe. you can pick any spot you can drill through into an air space (as opposed to a grease or bearing space) for the nipple really. the middle of the axle is easy as there are centre marks from the axle manufacturing turning procedure on both ends, normally.

youcan also join both sides together and use only one tube to the high point.

dellori,

You posted a good discussion here. I'd like to call your attention to one point: you are comparing the axle bearings with the cars differential bearings. That's not correct. Normally, cars differential bearings are enclosed in a box filled with lubrication oil, intended to lubricate the bearings, the gears, and help to keep everything in an acceptable temperature. Axle bearings are inside the hub, normally guarded from dust and powder by a simple gasket, and filled with grease for increased lubrication and protection against humidity. Normally, air flow through the wheel is enough to keep the temperature. Of course, drivers should be carefull using breaks during long downhills... Believe, grease really protects the subjects, do not underestimate it.

I can recall some II WW amphibious vehicles that have a really simple solution to the problem, as some guys had mentioned here in the forum: install grease fittings, and, if possible and for convenience, add a grease reservoir and a small hand pump in the trailer or in the vehicle. At the end of the day, after washing the trailer with clean water, give it some pumps of grease until clean grease comes out of the hubs clearances. Some water and dirt that was trapped inside will surelly come out too.

PS: this method of lubrication is also worldwide used in airplane landing gears.

Bhrescobar, I'm sorry but the things you mention is really " old tech" . People that know use lube oil for a number of reasons. it is a better lubricant and the bearings last longer. Check out the web site @ www.co-engineering.net ther is a animated illustration there in how it works . It's amazing.

Remember You can't have fun if the wheels come off before you get there!

dellori3

Ok dellori3. I am just assuming that the mentioned trailler is an old fashioned one and the guy is looking for a fast and cheap solution.

I understand it's better to use oil than grease, mainly for heat dissipation purposes, and aditives to prevent corrosion and etc.

Actually, I've been looking at the new posts and saw that this problem turned to a weekend toy as good as sailing with the boat...

Nice page, but actually our friend does not have much fun: the solution is already commercially available...

Yes there are some foolproof ways to keep water out of your trailer bearings while launching your boat.

You can drive it to the marina and have them lift the boat off and set it in the water for you. Works like a champ! Didn't even get my feet wet! Pricey though.

I have dealt with a lot of axles and trailer wheels in my time and no doubt will continue to do so.

Trailer axles are as simple as they get for the most part, they need a reliable foundation known as the spindle. It needs smooth surfaces that are concentric to the rotation of the hub assembly for which the seal can ride on to prevent entry of water or other destructive contaminates. The end cover can be complex, such as the afore mentioned devices complete with their pro's and con's, or as simple as a stamped steel cap with an o-ring seal. It just has to keep closed.

Foolproof? How about reliable?

Just do it right once and take care of it.

Good luck.

Headhunter out.