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Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/28/2009 6:35 AM

Yair... me agin'. I'm wondering can a smaller generator with an out put (say) 20% higher than the name plate rating on the driven motor be used to start a variable frequency drive.

That is to say... can the drive be gradualy bought up to speed from the lowest frequency setting thus obviating the problem of needing an over sized generator to supply sufficient amps to start the motor.

I had this problem with a chiller box. The 4kva Lister wouldn't start it so I made up a knife switch, started the chiller with the 8kva and then switched them over. Worked fine and the little 4kva was pretty much under optimum load most of the time.

Any thoughts?

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#1

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/29/2009 1:17 AM

Short answer - yes.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/29/2009 3:08 AM

Yair...Thanks.

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#2

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/29/2009 2:39 AM

VFD's are often used just for their "soft start" capabilities. If I understand your application correctly, a VFD should work for you.

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#4

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/29/2009 4:59 AM

The VFD draws current as an uncontrolled rectifier so the current has high harmonic content. If you look at the rated input current to the VFD compared to motor current you will see what I mean. You then need to select a generator capacity based on this kVA requirement but I would advise you to double check with the generator supplier.

Adding a choke option can reduce this RMS input current.

Years ago, on a similar application, I was advised to use a generator where VFD load was only 25% of total load, or 40% when choke is used (lower harmonic content) as otherwise the windings would end up in danger of being damaged.

Maybe you can soft start, then, when at speed, inhibit and disconnect VFD and connect dol, as you similarly described. Shut down the inverter electronic inhibit input 20mS or more before breaking main motor poles to avoid VFD stress. This would appear a practical solution at low risk to your gennie.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/29/2009 8:57 PM

Here is a good article for this topic. Maybe you need to do a simple registration to see this page: http://ecmweb.com/training/electrical_basics/electric_sizing_gensets_large/?smte=wr

In case, you don't see the page, here I copied the applicable part of the article:

---------

All versions of variable frequency drives (VFDs) are current limiting and reduce starting kW and kVA. The current drawn by these drives is nonlinear (having harmonics), which causes a distorted voltage drop across the reactance of the generator. Since VFDs are nonlinear, you must include an additional generator capacity sizing factor to keep voltage distortion to a reasonable level of approximately 15% total harmonic distortion (THD) or less. The larger the generator, the greater the reduction in impedance of the power source (generator), which in turn, reduces the effects caused by harmonic current distortion.

For six-pulse VFDs, a typical generator sizing factor would be twice the running kW of the drive. This offsets any reduction in starting kW and kVA. If it is the pulse width modulated (PWM) type (or includes an input filter to limit current distortion to less than 10%), then you can reduce the sizing factor down to 1.4 times the running kW of the drive.

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- MS

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/30/2009 9:17 AM

Thanks for the link. Good answer and I hope my comment proved useful, too.

As I say, selection needs checking with the generator supplier, a choke is always a great benefit on most smaller VFD's when you have a limited or weak power supply as they normally have little or no choke as a standard.

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#7

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/30/2009 9:51 AM

you can use a soft starter.But there is a requirement of starting torque for every equipment and torque reduses as square of voltage.So a minimum voltage is required to ensure starting the load.based on this generator can be sized as with smooth increasing of voltage starting current is also controlled

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Variable Frequency Drives and Generators

07/30/2009 10:58 AM

Most soft starts may need 2 to 3 x flc on starting even on light loads

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