Previous in Forum: UPS Batteries and Dirty Electrolytes   Next in Forum: Food Safe Greases and Certification
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: US
Posts: 31

ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/04/2009 12:01 PM

We have ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B casting and to comply with NACE MR0175 requirements the hardness shall be < 255 HBN. Witness tests showed 241 -248 HB when received the parts, but 7-9 days later, another hardness tests showed it went up to 255-269 HB, which is out os NACE MR0175 specs.

Checked vendor's material cert, chemistries are correct. Heat treatment processes followed the specs.

Is there any possible cause for the age hardening phenomenon? How to address this? Thank you!

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#1

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/04/2009 11:00 PM

Residual austenite. Might not have been properly hardened and tempered. Check the hoding times and the micro structure after the tempering about the %RA (retained Austenite)

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#2
In reply to #1

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/05/2009 10:03 AM

The errors on the observations may also be measurement errors.

Both were done by the same instrumentss, same operator etc ?

Surface conditions same ?

The possibility exist that the first reading being on the higher side of the tolerance, the second one going out was highlighted.

You are likely to have the micro results too, why not compare them (before and after for the RA?)

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: US
Posts: 31
#3

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/05/2009 12:27 PM

The material was austenized at 1875F and hold for 3 hrs. Air cooled.

then 1st tempered at 1255F. Hold for 5 hrs. Air cooled

2nd tempered at 1125F. Hold for 5 hrs. Air cooled

I also suspect the Cu. Form the analysis reulst, 0.32% of Cu. Though it is still in spec per ASTM A487. It is an austenizing element. Did it cause the residuel austenite?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#4
In reply to #3

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/06/2009 9:23 AM

The Copper although a gamma stabiliser, may not have that effect since it is well within the max (0.50%)

The Quenching in the first step is done in Air. Please check the Critical Cooling rate is maintained or not (I don't have the data on hand for A 487 though it does permit Air and Liquid quench media). This could have easily come out any way by the Retained Austenite.

The double tempering is also in line with the recommendation and I am not finding any abnormality in the cycle.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: US
Posts: 31
#5

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/06/2009 11:21 AM

SB,

Thank you for the info! I will do more investigation at the vendor.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#6
In reply to #5

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/06/2009 11:34 PM

In the meanwhile you can also check up

1. The measurement method and apparatus at both measurements (The first one is likely the vendor instrument and the second one your own). I was reading some paper on the hardness measurement and the gage R&R may become very poor if proper precautions are not taken.

2. Normally it is not-mentionable but were the surfaces well prepared before measuring ?

4. The hardness mapping of the casting at various points will give some idea. i don't know the size of the casting, but as per our in house standards, the hardness checking points are defined (in the report sketch is given) and each point are reported on the sketch. This ensures proper treatment across various wall thicknesses.

5. In the age hardening the decomposition of the RA will not complete in the small duration 7-9 days. Is the hardness still changing?

6. What was the previous experience with the same vendor/ other vendors.

7. A387 standard says in table 3 note B "The conversion is based on CA6NM test coupons"

The casting as per spec is supposed to be almost purly martensitic. You may still check for the presence of Austenites.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: US
Posts: 31
#7

Re: ASTM A487 CA6NM Cl B and Age Hardening

08/07/2009 11:26 AM

The part was checked twice by us at the same places within 10 days, and we found this increasing hardness issue. Surface was well prepared. I don't have much history with this vendor. Will conduct more serach on this.

Thank you very much!

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!

Previous in Forum: UPS Batteries and Dirty Electrolytes   Next in Forum: Food Safe Greases and Certification
You might be interested in: Hardness Testers, Durometers, Tool Steels

Advertisement