Distance of Pumps from Dyke Wall

Yes, it all depends on the pump. if you have a shallow well pump, you need to be much closer

it is understood that we have to place them as close as possible but how much??

is there any standard or specification for fixing the same ( for different types of pumps)

There is no standard specification for this that I know of. However there is that good common sense based on experience.

For the purpose of this discussion lets assume we are talking about hydrocarbon service.

A storage tank should be inside a diked area with volume equal to the capacity of the largest tank, plus the displaced volume of the smaller (or other) tank up to the height of the dike.

The dike shall not be be more than 2 meters high

The dikes should be stabilized so they do not wash out from rain or blow out from wind.

There should be a 1 meter space between the "Toe" of the dike and the edge of the sleepers.

The Main headers for transfer of crude and other intermediate of finished products should be on sleeper supports (Low to the ground).

The sleepers should be located between the edge of the dike and the pump group.

The sleeper way shall be wide enough to provide for the initial needs of the project plus 25% for future expansion.

There should be at least 2 meters between the outer edge of the sleeper way (now plus future) and the start of the pump pads or pump manifold piping.

The pump group shall be on the road side of the sleepers.

The road is to provide access for operations, maintenance, fire fighting and security.

The space between the back edge of the largest pump and the road shall allow for vehicle parking off the road so as to not obstruct emergency traffic.

You should also consider installing a curbed, paved drained (oily water drain) area around these pumps to collect and control spills.

This is more than you asked for but I hope it helps somehow.

Yeah it was a little more than i asked for..but it is really useful...

Thanx :-) specially for the the quick response :-)

But in rare case when there are no sleeprs outside the dyke wall, and we are going for curb wall around the pumps, and also we dont have any standard for fixing the distance between pump and dyke, so we can place the pumps as close as possile to the dyke wall ( to minimise the pile length and space occupied)..i.e we can combine (remove) one side of curb with dyke ( keeping in view the access to the valves).

As we have gone into details it has really raised my interest into this topic..i guess we can go a little more details..and i hope u will reply to the following...

In tankage - pump line (suction line) what is the preferable location of anchor point, i.e. is it preferable to put an anchor near to the tank inside the dyke wall or somwhere else??

Second one: in some of the cases we go for temporary strainers, is there any specififcation for going for these temporary strainers, i mean what r different condition under which we go for temporary strainers?? and what the conditions where we have to go for permanent stariners??

Under what conditions we go for conical strainers?? i mean what is criteria behind selecting the type of strainer??

In regards to your question

"In tankage - pump line (suction line) what is the preferable location of anchor point, i.e. is it preferable to put an anchor near to the tank inside the dyke wall or somwhere else??"

You are asking where you should add an artificial anchor point. Please understand me. You have a pump suction line that connects to the tank, then crosses the open area from the tank to the dike, it passes through the dike, then it travels to the point where it connects to the pump suction nozzle.

Now, here is the point! You already have three anchors on this line. These are natural anchor points. First is the Tank nozzle, second is the dike, third is the pump suction nozzle. Some people do not call these anchor points, but in fact they are.

What you need to do is route the pipe in a flexible manner between the tank nozzle and the dike. And route the pipe in a flexible between the dike and the pump suction nozzle.

Adding an artificial anchor somewhere else in this line does not eliminate the three anchors you already have and could add additional cost to the job because now you must make the line between the new anchor and a natural anchor more flexible.

Flexibility can only be added by routing (more pipe and fittings) or by installing an Expansion Joint. The more anchors you add in the more you must spend to add flexibility. The extra pipe, fittings, labor or expansion Joints cost money.

K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Singlaatul)

In regards to your question:

Second one: in some of the cases we go for temporary strainers, is there any specification for going for these temporary strainers, I mean what are different condition under which we go for temporary strainers?? and what the conditions where we have to go for permanent strainers??

Under what conditions we go for conical strainers?? i mean what is criteria behind selecting the type of strainer??

Here are two write-ups on this general subject from questions by other people.

#1 Pump Suction Strainers

The question:

Cone strainers (Witch's Hat) or Y-Strainers can be used inline for Pumps and Compressors start-up Strainers. In my experience, normally, Y-strainers are selected for this service where small amount of solids are expected and where clean-out will be infrequent. In other cases, cone strainers are recommended. Now the question is if there is other parameter to take in account to select one of them. Right now I have a client asking to use cone strainers in a clean service (Light naphtha) while it looks ok to use Y-strainer.

My answer:

There are a number of issues to consider when thinking about strainers in the suction line to a pump or a compressor.

These issues would include, but not be limited to the following:

· Size

· Purpose or Function

· Operational considerations

· Ease of maintenance

· Cost

· Client preference

So, let's take a look at some thoughts on each of these items.

- Size - There is a point on the pipe size scale where there will be a natural break between strainer types. Any suction line that is 2" NPS or smaller I would only select the Y-strainer. For 3" NPS and larger I would consider all other issues before deciding on a type.

- Purpose or Function - What is the purpose and function of the intended strainer? Is it because of concern for the pump (or compressor) during start-up in that there might be residual construction related material that was left in the line that would damage the equipment? Or is it being considered because the normal process is expected to contain or develop "lumps" that could damage the equipment? If it is for start-up you should lean towards the cone-strainer.

- Operational considerations - Depending on the function then which type will give me the most reliable and the most sustained operation. Shut-downs cost money and reduce profits due to loss in production.

- Ease of maintenance - All strainers will get plugged over time. The temporary (start-up) strainer is intended to be removed after some period of time. This might be anything from hours to days, to weeks or longer. This is a planned shut-down. The cone strainer requires far more time and effort to remove clean and reinstall than the Y-Strainer.

- Cost - The cone strainer is normally a simple cone with holes, fitting inside the suction pipe. The Y-strainer includes the strainer basket and the full body that is the same material as the pipe and capable of the same pressure and temperature conditions as the pipe system. The cone strainer therefore is a far cheaper option than the Y-strainer of the same size.

- Client preference - This will normally be the issue that overrides all the other issues. If the Client says they do not want cone strainers then you could try to save them from themselves by showing them the cost difference and then if they still insist on Y-strainers then put in Y-strainers.

#2 Strainers

The Question:

Pump Suction Strainers, Which is best?

My answer:

That is a very good question. The selection of a strainer depends on many factors. These include purpose, operating philosophy, maintenance philosophy, commodity, entrainments, space and cost.

There are four basic configurations (types) and they each have positive and negative points. The common types are listed below in alphabetical order along with some comments about selection.

Basket Strainers

http://www.fabrotech.com/std_bk.htm (Simplex)

http://www.fabrotech.com/duplx.htm (Duplex)

The Basket Strainer is normally fabricated and can be found in a wide range of sizes and materials. The larger sizes will come with legs for support (reduces loading on pump nozzles). The larger sizes require davits or monorails to remove the basket. Depending on the commodity they should also be located in a paved, curbed well drained area for removal and cleaning. Removal and re-installation of the basket does not normally effect the pump alignment. The available "cross-sectional area" choices depend on the screen selected. The Duplex Strainer allows for full operation on one strainer chamber while the other side is in full operation.

Cost: Highest total installed cost.

Cone Strainers

http://www.weamco.com/cone.htm

The Cone Strainer is normally a prefabricated, off-the-shelf piping item. They come in two basic configurations: the pointed cone and the truncated cone. They are available in various materials and open cross-sectional area. The Cone strainer may be used as a permanent strainer but is normally used only during start-up and in then removed. The minimum recommended cross-sectional area is 150% to 200%. This means that if you choose a 150% strainer and it gets one third plugged you still have 100% of your pump suction line cross section area open. With the 200% it gets one third plugged you still have 100% of your pump suction line cross section area open. With the 200% strainer if it gets one half plugged you still have 100% of your pump suction line cross section area open. It all depends on how dirty the product is and how you intend to maintain the strainers. Removal and/or installation will normally require the services of a Millwright to check or realign the pump. A critical piping layout issue is the space requirements (example: 12" pump suction line, pointed cone, 200% open area = 33" long)

Cost: Lowest total installed cost.

TEE Strainers

http://www.fabrotech.com/teestr.htm

The TEE Strainer is a strainer fabricated from a standard piping TEE. The end-to-end dimensions are the same as a standard TEE. They are available with butt-weld ends or with flanged ends. The screen removal cover can be flanged or quick release toggles. TEE strainers also come with the "flow" in one end and out the other (screen removal from the branch) or in one end and out the branch (screen removal from the end). The removal or installation of the screen does not affect the pump alignment. The available "cross-sectional area" choices depend on the screen selected.

Cost: Higher than Cone but lower than Basket

"Y" Strainers

http://www.fabrotech.com/c_carb.htm

The "Y" Strainer may be cast steel or fabricated. The "Y" Strainer is designed to allow for in place "blow-down" cleaning. Depending on the commodity and the "blow-down" piping this strainer can be cleaned while in full service. The "Y" Strainer is available in various end connection choices including screwed, socket-welded, butt-welded, flanged and mechanical-joint. The "Y" Strainer also comes in a wide range of sizes from very small to 24". The "Y" Strainer only comes with the flow in one end and out the other.

Cost: Higher than Cone but lower than Basket

All of the above: http://www.pelmareng.com/pdf/Filters/Fabricated_Strainers.pdf

it was another perfect answer.

I really appreciate the efforts u ve put in answering my question.

Did u notice that we were just discussing something out of the topic we started with.

and #4 remained unanswered. I am sure u will be having some idea about that too.

I can only assume that this is the #4 that you are talking about.

"But in rare case when there are no sleepers outside the dike wall, and we are going for curb wall around the pumps, and also we don't have any standard for fixing the distance between pump and dike, so we can place the pumps as close as possible to the dike wall ( to minimize the pile length and space occupied)..i.e we can combine (remove) one side of curb with dike ( keeping in view the access to the valves)."

I did not see a question here. It seems more like a statement.

However I will offer this.

There are no "Standards" for this type of thing. Only experience and common sense.

If you use earthen dikes (with a slope) I would not make the "Toe" of the dike co-exist with the curb of the pump pad area. Reason: Over time the earth of the dike will tend to slump or wash down and then you have a mess around the pumps and possibly plug-up the oily water drain sump.

However, if you were to use a vertical reinforced concrete wall dike, then you could incorporate it with the pump pad area.

I still recommend space between the pump pad and the dike (wall or slope) for future expansion

Please refer Petroleum Act 1934 for details.

FYI

M.V.Jadhav

I am sure that the "Petroleum Act 1934" is a interesting and even valid reference. However, I am just a retired Ex-Piper with no access to or funds to purchase all the vast number of Codes, Standards and articles that exist.

My contributions here, what ever value they may have are all based on my years of work experience, memory and opinions based on simple logic.

So Mr. M. V. Jadhav, if you would give me (and the rest of the readers) some idea of what this is and what it says, without violating National and International Copyright Laws we would be very appreciative.

Thank You