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Anonymous Poster
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| Could a electrical and or maufacturing and or flow engineer specialist read the following and note My Question(BELOW) and the 2 answers(Below) and then read my furthur explanation/answer to Lynlynch (Below the answers) noting I am just trying to say I want my pool pump motor to work per manufacturers recommendation and they (the manufacturer) DO NOT RECOMMEND replacing something which is ALMOST the same. (i.e. If I said you could drive from los angeles to san francisco (with all expenses paid) in a 20 year old basic toyota corrola or drive in a new hybrid fully equipped lexus I think most of us would pick the Lexus. Yes both will do the job and obtain the end result but will one be more efficient, more comfortable, etc? That is why I want the new replacement motor to be the best it can be (equal to or better than that which i had on the pump before). In other words I had a 1HP/1.65SF motor and as stated they want to replace with a 1HP/1.4SF then why not with a 1HP/1.0SF or a 1HP/1.9SF, in other words even the slightest of difference does not make it correct, and as the consumer as all of us know, insurance companies at times want to get away with paying for as little as necessary yet we pay big premiums and they still make money. PLEASE RESPOND IN AS LAY A PERSONS LANGUAGE AS POSSIBLE AS I'm Not an engineer but my late father in law was a Phd in civil and electrical engineering from caltech and usc (boy could i use him now). Much appreciation to all who are helping me!!!!!!! |
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| Guest |  Is pool pump motor with SF lower than original ok to be replced? 08/30/2009 2:41 AM |
| Two non electrical pool mechanics have both stated don't worry about the SF on a new MOTOR when replacing my motor on my swimming pool PUMP. However the motor manufacture and others have quoted an engineering statement which says
"Total output (HP x service factor) of a replacement MOTOR MUST equal or exceed motor being replaced". My original swimming pool PUMP(1/2 is impellar/seal and other 1/2 is the motor) is 1 HP with a SF of 1.65, and the motor only needs replacement. These pool people are saying they can replce the motor with a 1 HP and SF of 1.4 motor and all will be fine. (I really don't think they understand SF). The PUMP manufacture of the original 1HP/SF1.65 pump states if they do not follow the rule they can damage the impellar as well as now sticking us with a less efficient motor. Is this true? |
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lynlynch Guru   
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Back in the heat, again. Posts: 1839 Good Answers: 37 |  #
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 Re: Is pool pump motor with SF lower than original ok to be replced? 08/30/2009 8:48 AM |
| Well, sort of. Your 1HP motor with a service factor of 1.6 could be safely operated at 1.6 X FLA (full load amps) of the motor without damage. I've always tried to stay below a SF of 1-1.2 when sizing pump motors, but this is just me.
I don't believe that you can damage the impeller unless you install a motor that operates at a higher speed, which won't happen.
A 1 HP motor with a service factor of 1.4 will be fine.
The only way to know for sure is to run the pump at max flow, and check the amp draw. If amp draw is too high, the flow must be adjusted so that the motor is not drawing more power than FLA X SF. |
No more Good Answers.
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YWROADRUNNER Guru 
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cypress Calif Posts: 603 Good Answers: 14 | #
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In reply to #1
Re: Is pool pump motor with SF lower than original ok to be replced? 08/31/2009 12:55 AM |
| Hello lynlynch:
I'm going to defer this comment to you as I have very little experience with swimming pool pump motors. Truthfully I don't know that I have ever run into a motor with a service factor of 1.6.
However it has been my experience that when I run into a motor with unusual specifications that it generally is an OEM listing a motor that they know nobody else makes, and of course it's a premium price.
Of course frame sizes and shaft sizes must be considered, but in the past I generally upsize the motor to a larger standard industrial motor. With a service factor of 1.2 or so. In this case if it is available with the correct frame size and connections, I would probably use a 1 1/2 horsepower motor.
Of course sometimes this is not possible due to unusual shaft sizes etc., but the cost savings can be quite significant , some of these unique OEM motors costs three or four times the price of an standard industrial motor.
PS: it's pretty easy to order a large number of units with a custom tag on it and triple the price, course I think it's unethical, but it's not unusual. |
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drbdf1 Participant
Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1 | #
3
In reply to #1
Re: Is pool pump motor with SF lower than original ok to be replced? 08/31/2009 2:42 AM |
| Lynch and others ---- Let me give you more info Im an older person that has a home owners insurance policy on my pool pump and the insurance company sent out 2 separate non electrical people that want to put a generic energy efficient motor to replace the energy efficient motor which is part of the pump. The manufacturer Pentair Pool Supplies, and the company that makes the motors for Pentair Pool Pumps state that you just can't replace a lesser Output Motor (per formula listed above in original message) or you will damage the impellar of the pump and the pump will not be as efficient etc. What I would like you to see is serial # below QC1102 and this would actually be the replacement motor for my pump (the manufacturer(Pentair) recommends). Based on the new part Pentair recommends (see below) and see the uprate HP and uprate SF etc. and knowing I don't care about price I just want the pump to be just like it was when I first got it, then would a generic made motor 1HP with a SF 1.4 (this generic mootor is what the insurance company is putting in) be exactly the same as compared to exactly following the manufacturer recommendation of 1HP with a 1.65SF(or the one they recommend as cited below). As a side not when looking at the chart belowas supplied by Pentair maybe they don't make the 1HP and 1.65SF and Pentair is saying its ok to use the 1.5Hp with the 1.1SF which as a totally unknowledgeable brain for electronics (me) it sounds like you are saying that this 1.5HP with the 1.1SF is a match. So in summary if I do understand then the generic 1HP 1.4SF is NOT appropriate. Am I sort of understanding you? Please understand I'm a teacher/physician/reseacher and as with all people we really ask for nothing more than to at least be given our options, and hopefully all the options are spelled out for us, and then hopefully we can make a choice which we hope is the absolute best choice based on many factors. In other words I want what is recommened in this case by manufacture and by rules (i.e. per above OUTPUT statement in original message). My problem is uneducated pool people are stating don't worry the HP1/SF1.4 is fine and I feel it isn't but I need in lay persons terms to be able to explain why the generic HP1/SF1.4 motor will not be proper as a replacement for my pump. Will the GPM(gallons per minute) be the same, will the efficiency be the same and yes the HP1/SF1.4 is also a energy efficient motor but at $88.oo(HP1/SF1.4) vs. approximately $250.00(HP1/SF1.65) there must be a difference and of course insurance companies want to save money. So I'm very sorry to bother you again but I would love to have you help me here. Thanks alot!!!!!
A.O. Smith Square Flange Motor Cross Reference Chart:
* Stock
Number | Full Rate
Horsepower | Electrical
Efficiency | Volts | Amps | Service
Factor |
*REPLACES*
Up Rate Number | Up Rate
Horsepower | Up Rate
Serv. Fact. |
| SQ1052 | 1/2 | Standard | 115/230 | 11.8/5.9 | 1.9 | USQ1072 | 3/4 | 1.27 |
| QC1052 | 1/2 | Energy
Efficient | 115/230 | 9.6/4.8 | 1.9 | UQC1072 | 3/4 | 1.27 |
| SQ1072 | 3/4 | Standard | 115/230 | 14.8/7.4 | 1.65 | USQ1102 | 1 | 1.25 |
| QC1072 | 3/4 | Energy
Efficient | 115/230 | 12.6/6.3 | 1.65 | UQC1102 | 1 | 1.25 |
| SQ1102 | 1 | Standard | 115/230 | 19.2/9.6 | 1.65 | USQ1152 | 1.5 | 1.1 |
| QC1102 | 1 | Energy
Efficient | 115/230 | 16.0/8.0 | 1.65 | UQC1152 | 1.5 | 1.1 |
| SQ1152 | 1.5 | Energy
Efficient | 208/230 | 10.4 | 1.47 | USQ1202 | 2 | 1.1 |
| SQ1202 | 2 | Energy
Efficient | 230 | 11.2 | 1.3 | USQ1252 | 2.5 | 1.0 |
| SQ1302 | 3 | Energy
Efficient | 230 | 15.4 | 1.15 | - | - |
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PLEASE HELP SOLVE ELECTRICAL AND FLOW MECHANICAL ENGINEERING CONCERN 
Re: PLEASE HELP SOLVE ELECTRICAL AND FLOW MECHANICAL ENGINEERING CONCERN
