Permafrost Additive for HVAC

Sign me up! I want to corner the market, before everyone else finds out about this wonderful savior of mankind.

They've discovered the secret of, " Nucleo Molecular Regenerative (NMR) technology (that) uses highly activated thermo-conductive compound".

Kinda strange that there is no clue on how to use the stuff. I assume it goes in with the working fluid?

Anytime someone promises 100% efficiency, RUN AWAY, FAST! Grasp money firmly till out of range.

Or, give it a try and let us know if you can measure any change in performance.

Don,t see anything in there web site that said that the product would make a HVAC system 100% efficient. So it sounds like a sales pitch from someone pedalling the producthttp://www.permafrost.bz/There

There are some case studies listed for review.

No company address supplied on the web site... English apparently composed by a non-native speaker... Claims of 10-30% reduction in power consumption not unreasonable, since the results depend on the age of the equipment (clean oil makes a compressor run better...) How does one change the oil in a sealed compressor?...

One main thing to remember, when you are referring to a piece of equipment being 100% efficient, I think you are reading the information wrong. PermaFrost restores the equipment back to its full capacity by removing the oil fouling. Per ASHRAE, a piece of refrigeration/AC equipment will loose 30 percent of its capacity in the first five years. Please understand that this in NOT a PROA. This uses a patented NMR technology. Please visit this website for PermaFrost. There a lot of case studies, most done by third party companies that verify that this is a sustainable product. www.powertronglobal.com

Please keep in mind ASHRAE, I believe, states a lose of up to 30%, but can be lower than 20%. A lot of that will depend on how the system is operating and if it is well maintained. Please do not get me wrong, I like the technology behind PermaFrost. I do have several concerns. What happens if you have to change the oil in a larger system (say a hundred ton chiller)(I beleive it is priced on a per once and the amount of onces is dictated by the amount of oil), do you have to reinstall PermoaFrost? What happens if a moisture get into the system? most times you can dry it out with a few filter drier changes. But, I have heard, but need confirmation, that moisture breaks loose the Permafrost coating and once the system is dried out it will have to be reinstalled. What happens to the oringinal PermaFrost charge once it mixes with moisture? Next, based on everything I have read, you will not see any enegry saving if the unit is newer (7 years or younger) and if it is installed in any thing over 15 years old, you are taking a chance as it is still an old machine. So to me that is a very short window to utilize the product. How many installs have there been? There are people out there that think this will solve all oil problems and are considing this when they still would need to correct their piping issues. Can someone tell me who to talk to as I could go on for sometime with the list I have of concerns. I really do not want to talk to Powertron as I feel I will just get a sales pitch. I would like to talk to someone that has this in thier machines.

No technical details are available in the web site. Form the web site it appears that the permafrost is an energy efficient lubricant and the company claims that it saves 19% of energy consumption in residential a.c units. Pay back period is I year. As it is a lubricating device its compatibility with refrigerant and other a.c parts materials to be investigated and documented. Most of residential units are with hermetically sealed units. Major Power consumption part of an a.c unit is compressor which is sealed one. Therefore unless the company provides full technical details it is difficult to judge /comment it. Regards, Dr. Ram

Sorry but the website I was directed to by the email was www.permafrostsolutions.com

and this does state that the additive will return the units to 100% effiicency.

It still seems too good to be true!

Perhaps (given that as stated the English was composed by a non-native speaker) they meant 'return the units to 100% of design efficiency.' Just giving them the benefit of the doubt. While I am skeptical, the combination of an efficient lubricant and seal conditioner might have the stated effect.

Andy,

The brochure on the UK website is very ambiguous. I believe you are referring to this graph I pulled from their literature:

The title indicates that the heat transfer efficiency is 100%, not the overall air conditioner. I also suspect that the 100% is a relative value, not absolute. The graph shows a new unit to be 100% efficient at installation, so what they really mean is "100% of design efficiency".

The dominant effect is not better lubrication, but reducing or eliminating the insulating effect of the oil on the tubes of the evaporator and condenser. According to the manufacturer, Permafrost improves heat transfer by making the lubricant a thermal conductor instead of a thermal insulator. I don't have any experience with ammonia units, but in freon units, the oil is entrained in the freon gas and flows through the entire unit. It coats the inside of the tubes in the evaporator and condenser, acting as a thin sheet of insulation. By making the oil itself a thermal conductor, it now helps the heat transfer process instead of hindering it.

Both permafrostsolutions.com and permafrost.bz are distributors of the product made by Powertron Global. The Powertron website has much more information, including several case studies with scientific data and 3rd party testing.

the manufacture website site for PermaFrost is here: www.powertronglobal.com .

ya i know about this product it removes oil fouling in airconditioning systems and increases your systems efficiency upto 30 to 40% as ashrae reports says that system loses efficiency 7% first year,5% next year and then 2% every year.

My knowledge says that you will get payback in 24 months. but i don'nt know what is the price quoted to you in this context for the permafrost vijesh

http://ecosciencesolutions.com/faq.htm Kim

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It does what it says..excellent tecnology.. lynlynch does not have a clue.. about 100 a ton... one time treatment..

PRODUCT IS GOOD IT WORKS I HAVE USED THIS PRODUCT IN CAR AC AND AND AND ROOM AIR CONDITIONER

I got my ac done last summer my ac could never go below 78 when it was 90 out this year its been 102-106 and I get my house to 74. they also put it in my car and wow it is so cold. also my electric bill drop by $80. my unit is 27 years old. I plan on getting a new unit next year and i will have it put in that one also.