Sans EFI and Computer Chips

tcmtech - I sent vote for good answer. I have a 66 Chevy and it is taking me more time than what I planned to get it in good shape. So I thought I might sell it and look for something that is already fixed up and wanted to limit my search to a 100% computer free truck/SUV. Thanks.

GM went to CCC (computer command control) in 1980. There were some early CCC systems in the 1979 Chevettes. The CCC was the beginning of today's computer systems. From this date forward, the emission controls, fuel mixtures, and ignition timing were all controlled by the on board computer. These systems were fine tuned with the use of a removable chip in the computer. These chips were widely sold to extract better performance from these cars. The early catalytic converters were restrictive. If your car is 74 or later, it has one.

Computer controls and performance can get along together very well. Look at the latest offerings from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. A fuel injector is a very accurate way to meter fuel. A computer can vary the timing in more ways and more accurately than any of the mechanical systems can.

There are some inexpensive Camaros, and Mustangs that could be back fitted with non computer controls. You might be better off looking for a stick shift car. The computers are also used to tell the transmission when, where, and how to shift.

Another option is the kit cars. If you have the skills to finish some one else's project, there are some good deals out there.

Don't be afraid of the computers. How many people threw away those alternators and went back to the generators? Who did you know that took out that electronic ignition in order to put in a distributer with points?

Try to get your hands on a copy of a GM CCC training manual. Once you see what parts do what, the systems are really good tools. Good luck.

He is probably looking for a post EMP option.

Depending on what you want and if you know what to look for you have many options with the newer models that are some place between the all mechanical and the all electronic control.

Things like the electronic transmission control came in after most of the electronic engine controls. I work with Ford mostly and there was a transitional era where there were vehicles with electronic engine controls but still the old mechanical/hydraulic automatic transmission behind it.

On Ford its easy to tell. The old 3 speed C4 series transitioned into 4 speed AOD series and was later updated to the AODE series. Its basically the same transmission but the M/H valve body got replaced with a electronic system. The old C6 series got replaced with the E4OD. Which is basically the 4 speed version of the beefy C6 and a full electronic valve body.

I have a 1985 F150 with a built up 460 and the E4OD with a independent aftermarket transmission controller made by PCS. I would never take anything less after having it! Electronic control of a heavy duty overdrive automatic is above and beyond anything the old school factory ever had and allows you to have options and settings the stock factory computer never had! I have mine set up for torque converter lock up in all four gears. When pulling trailers its like having an 8 speed automatic! Its a bit more work setting up a full electronic transmission system but it still allows for full carburated engine control like I have.

I don't like electronic fuel systems that I cant adjust either. But I love electronic transmission control!

I have a 1999 Ford F250 super duty and I plan to dump the electronic controlled V10 and put the carburated 460 in it with the aftermarket transmission controller. To do that its basically just a matter of pulling out the current V10 computer and plugging in one setup for thediesel and manual transmission version of my pickup. That way the diesel computer keeps all the truck stuff working properly but it still will ignore that the engine is carburated and the transmission has its own brain.

So as you can see there are other options that are possible with a bit of creative parts swapping. Its still the old school hot rod mentality of make it better, faster, more powerful, and more fuel efficient but now with modern parts and systems.

Ultimately it does still come down to what your comfortable with and how much effort you want put into the changes needed to customize a more modern vehical.

Ultimately it does still come down to what your comfortable with

How comfortable are you with that Variable Venturi carburetor?

You mean my 800 CFM 4 bbl mechanical secondary Edelbrock? Very comfortable!

I grew up around old farm machinery. If I cant tune a carburetor by now I am not worth my weight in old EFI and emissions systems parts!

PS. I can also strip and reasemble a number of mechancial diesel injector pumps and retune them entirly by ear and feel as well for better power and efficency!

We had an older Crown Vic that had that VVC. I just could not get it to respond as well as I would have liked.

And while I can appreciate your ability to reassemble those diesel pumps, I am at a loss as to why you would have to strip first. Please NO pictures.

I would probably stay below 1970. Around '75 and up something was on vehicles of one sort or another. Cats, electronic carbs and such.

Hey Guy: try S10V8 conversions there is a large group of folks building S10 pickups and the information is really good especially if you read it before you buy or build and plan you project well in advance because of the work involved converting a newer vehicle to operate with an older style engine is a worthy project and has lots of variables things like fuel consumption or speed or horsepower or comfort must be decided before you begin. I have a 1995 LS S10 that I have converted to a 1988 SBC with a 650CFM edelbrock and a 700R4 AOD transmission 4x4 positrack 3:43 differential. has about 400Hp and AIR Conditioning no cruise control or cat converts yet but I runs like a smooth mountain lion 75 mph at about 2300 rpm picture if you like and lots of advice for your project kinda fun to know you can burn them off any time any place even fishtail while under way but it gets old buying tires>

When stripping the throttle body injection, as well as CCC, remember the distributor has to go as well. With fuel injection, and ccc, there is no timing advance in the distributor. It is computer controlled. Been there done that with my '85 Fox body Capri 302. The previous owner had cut up the wiring harness and fried the computer. So it was Holley 600 4Bbl and an Accel Billet series vacuum adv. Distributor for me. Also remember that you either have to put a fuel pressure regulator in or replace the in tank fuel pump. Carburetors don't like the 14psi fuel pressure that the throttle body did.

The big three (Ford GM and Chrysler) went to computer controls in 1981 for California and 1982 for the remaining states. For several years before that they used some really complex vacuum systems and all sorts of other things to try to get the job done. You need to go pre 1970 if you want to avoid almost all the forms of emission controls, but then you are getting a crude vehicle that requires weekly adjustment to run properly. It is up to you but I think you are trading costs and are no further ahead by going that old. Either pay a little for professional service, or pay a ton for fuel and shorter engine life!!!

In California, you still have to pass the smog test to register your vehicle unless it is pre-1965. The year 1965 was the limit as of a few years ago. It might be different today.

tommml

Hi Matt;

I own a 1976 CJ5 JEEP, I've enjoyed it for over a decade and still love it !

No fuzzy electronics or computer stuff, when you open the hood, you have plenty of room to work whatever you want on the engine, the electric system is incredibly simple, being the most complex part a magetic pick-up distributor with an ignition module before the coil, that's all ! . The Haynes manual actually enables you to do everything yourself. And believe me, the amazing capabilities and toughness of this vehicle will render years of adventures for you and your loved ones.

Many catalogs (like Quadratec) have every one of the parts you would need to build a CJ5 from ground (not that I sugest doing so), from full frames to whole bodies and complete drive trains to just fancy add-ons, spark plugs or cheap hardware; you'll never suffer for unavailability of parts.

Besides, this little beast is very good looking (canvas on or off) and a great classic.

I hope you decide for one of these and make every little trip enjoyable.

Kind regards

Yahlasit

I had a 1979 Chevy Impala without a computer. The pickup in the distributor was electronic.

If you want points and condenser go to early 1970's vehicle.

Stay away from a vehicle with a computer controlled carburetor.

"Stay away from a vehicle with a computer controlled carburetor."

I second that whole heartedly. The CCC systems are notoriously fussy. Especially after they get some years under their belt.

I was never a fan of them either. GM used a mixture control solenoid that would lift a metering rod out of a jet, then drop it. They sounded like a pair of rocker arms had about .075 clearance. The drivability of these years was just horrible. The Qjets were able to be fine tuned for better performance in most of the same ways as the non computer controlled ones, but most people would just wait till the warranty was out, and replace it.

I know what you mean. Had that on my '80 Grand Prix (231cid buick V6) but mine was a computer controlled (the C4 system) Dualjet which was even more of a POS

Oh yeah also on the 267 V8 in my '79 Malibu. Both were removed.

Why would you want points? The first series of GM's HEI distributors used in Oldsmobiles were set with .080 spark plug gaps, and were covered by a 50,000 mile warranty. How would you get a set of points to fire that 50,000 mile plug?

The early HEIs had vacuum advance and centrifugal advance. And you can still buy an adjustable vacuum advance to dial in any curve that you could desire. One of the advantages of the computer controlled ignition systems is that they can be set up to advance as the RPM increases, and at a certain point start to retard timing. With points you would have to have at least a dual set of points along with a manual switch to do the retard.

MAT SKYWALKER: MY 1979 CHRYSLER W/ 360 LEAN BURN FAILED IN THE EFI & COMPUTER. THE CHEAPEST FIX WAS A TESTED USED STANDARD DISTRIBUTER W/POINTS & CONDESOR. I LIFTED ONE OUT & SET THE OTHER IN LEAVING THE LEAN BURN KIT ON THE AIR BREATHER WITH THE HARNES TAPED TO THE BREATHER/ SO NOT TO HANG DOWN. THE ENGINE NOW HAS NO TIMING SYSTEM, SO REMOVE # 1 SPARK PLUG, TO DETERMINED IT IS AT TOP DEAD CENTRE, WHEN PLACING DISTRIBUTOR IN PLACE, WITH ROTOR AT THE # 1 POSITION. PLACE SPARK PLUG & CAP ON DISTRIBUTOR, YOU CAN NOW START THE ENGINE, BUT WITH IT RUNNING REV. IT UP A LITTLE ROTATE DISTRIBUTOR SLIGHTLY EACH DIRECTION, TO PEAK BEST TIMINT SETTING. THIS WORKED SO WELL, I LEFT IT THAT WAY UNTIL I SOLD THE CAR 1 YEAR LATER.