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Why Do Motors Work?

01/10/2007 1:38 AM

Hi,

I'm doing research and am wondering if there is any explaination or theory as to why electric motors work. I know the right hand rule/lorentz law. What I'm after is what's happening in the quantum mechanics scale that's making the motor go, the intraction of electrons and atoms. ty

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#1

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/10/2007 10:05 AM

Huh. it's not that complex really if you already know Lorentz's law.

Electrons get excited by magnetics in the generator, creating Electro Motive Force (aka voltage). The flow of EMF creates magnetic fields around the conductors. Conductors in the motor concentrate the magnetic fields in areas designed to exploit their effect on magnetically permeable materials (iron mainly), creating kinetic energy in an iron mass. Bearings and frames contain that kinetic energy and transmute it into rotational kinetic energy. We call that rotational kinetic energy "torque".

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#21
In reply to #1

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 3:18 PM

LOOK MASU you give me kinetic energy,,,, electrons and atoms,,,,quantum mechanics scale.....interaction....SCALE QUANTUM ...for me this is more that a language.And I just know some....you give a 5 years solution.phil....

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#2

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/10/2007 1:18 PM

So, eddy currents power this?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/motdc.html

http://www.ee.byu.edu/em/elecmeter.htm

and cause this?

http://www.ee.byu.edu/em/lorentz.htm

The meter's kinda complicated. Would the currents path stay straight, curve, or spiral, at differnet levels?

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#3

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/10/2007 10:17 PM

They work becuase they cann't get disability.

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#4

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/10/2007 11:33 PM

They are neither union nor management - so they work!

(Sorry)

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#5

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/11/2007 6:14 AM

Silly Rabbit; It's all magic!

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#6

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/11/2007 7:03 AM

magnetic feild caused by electrons movement has a rotational caracteristic that is transmitted to the magnetic force permetting our motor to rotate !

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#7

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/11/2007 10:51 AM
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#8

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/11/2007 12:35 PM

Bunzeg would you perhaps be asking the question of what really causes the electromagnetic force that makes the motor turn?

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#9

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/11/2007 4:02 PM

If you are wanting to go beyond the usual "moving wire through field causes EMF", etc. then I'd suggest following (in Hyperphysics) links to Faraday, Biot-Savert, Maxwell, Gauss, etc.

Then, you might be convinced it's all circuitous (no pun intended). So then, read this:

http://amasci.com/elect/charge1.html

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#10

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/12/2007 11:12 PM

Yes what I'm really looking for is why the magnetic feild is 90 degrees to the electron direction. And I hear magnetic feilds consist of photons, is that true?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/15/2007 5:13 AM

Hi Buzneg,

I have been keeping an eye on this discussion and your final post asking how an electric field causes a magnetic field and vice versa seems to have elicited total silence. In fact it is a very good question and I am afraid it is a question to which, as yet, there is no answer.

The electromagnetic force and field is one of the fundamental_forces of the universe which originally included the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force and gravity. However in the not too distant part some really brilliant propeller heads have managed to prove that the weak nuclear force and electromagnetic force are different manifestations of the same thing. Ultimately it is believed that all forces are different manifestations of the same thing. The greatest propeller head of all, Einstein, tried to unify these but unfortunately he was never able to so it doesn't bode well for an answer in the near future.

I did find this paper on the internet called "What_is_the_cause_of_Magnetic_Fields?" which talks about the interrelation between the two. Unfortunately to date nobody has been able to explain why the two are entwined in the infinite self sustaining embrace that they are, but if you do ever figure it out it's almost certain to win you a Nobel prize or three.

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#12

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/17/2007 8:51 PM

what if I can explain the gyroscopic effect?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/17/2007 11:11 PM

That's only worth a cup of coffee.

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#14

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

01/21/2007 4:40 AM

Hi Buzneg, I just thought I would mention that you can insert images into a CR4 post by clicking the image button on the toolbar and following the directions. It makes referring to images considerably easier.

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#15

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/10/2008 4:37 PM

Good question,I will look at a vacuum,empty of space,empty of pressure,air pressure.This mean for me now the electron will not be able to ionise an atom.no air pressure acting in a way to block,or stop????????????????I will look at it because the crystal structure will need a scale for sure.but good question.I will look at spesific heat,thermal equilibrium,gas law the IDEAL one.Give me a chance and I will try to get sothing.phil

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 6:21 AM

Hi philippe martin,

Welcome to CR-4, it's a really good forum for engineers to to exchange information on their experiences and share their knowledge. Besides, some of the threads can be quiet entertaining and give you a laugh.

Please don't take offence but I'm not sure I can get my head around what you are trying to convey. This thread has been dormant for over a year so I have lost the train of thought. It would be greatly appreciated if you cold expand on your post with a little more detail.

There are a couple of things I find particularly confusing:

  • I will look at a vacuum, empty of space, empty of pressure, air pressure.

A vacuum doesn't mean that there is no space or it is free of space. The concept of a vacuum can be somewhat ambiguous but it loosely refers to the lack of mass. There is still space just nothing inside it. The lack of pressure can also be a little wacky as well as a lack of pressure doesn't necessarily mean there is no matter. It just means that whatever you are describing doesn't have any kinetic energy. If you cool anything to absolute zero -273.15°C you have removed all the kinetic energy and the pressure will be zero but the mass will remain.

  • This mean for me now the electron will not be able to ionise an atom.no air pressure acting in a way to block,or stop????????????????I will look at it because the crystal structure will need a scale for sure.

I'm completely confused about this. Are you saying that an electron can't move through a vacuum or something else? By the way electrons and therefore the energy they have can transverse a vacuum. After all, that's how a cathode ray or picture tube works.

Regards MASU

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 6:38 AM

I am honest now I don't have a better direction.I don't remember who say that:I just need a start ....this is my start.I have to work hard on it for my own purpose and my job.I believe and this I am right.One brain get lost ,allot brain S get to a point of correction.THERMODYNAMIC ....this will be my start.phil.....I work on it.thank you

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 8:28 AM

Hi Philippe,

Please don't take offence but I gather English is not your fist language or the language you use in ordinary conversations or correspondence. The English language is one of the most complex languages on Earth and has taken many words, phrases and grammatical structure from nearly every other language there is or has been. As a result it a total mess that is full of inconsistencies and contradictions that make it a nightmare to learn and become proficient.

Anyway, I am not being negative or contradictory about what you are saying I am just having trouble understanding what you are trying to say.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 3:11 PM

MY friend,MASU this is the way to connect.I am sure I take offense by my self.Communication mean get it.also I will not do more effort.Personal and stupid,but this is it.MASU you tell me your issue and will start with it.get cool with me,get comfortable.I am.phil

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/14/2008 8:54 AM

Hi philippe martin,

If that's the way you communicate on an everyday basis then you are going to have serious problems in any sort of professional relationship with fellow engineers.

This is a multi national forum and I like most others allow greater leeway for those that do not use English as a first language. However, you need to keep in mind that the 11,000 plus people that participate in CR4 may not be as familiar or proficient with the English language and using a pseudo short hand can create great confusion as is the case with what I refer to the CRIMINAL use of acronyms. You will need to follow the link to find out about that.

The problems with trying to save time by using pseudo shorthand is fine when you are the only person reading the information but it can waste a phenomenal amount of time for the reader and considering there may be up to 10,000 other trying to understand your jottings the potential for time wasting is cataclysmic.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if you do or do not use clear and succinct language, but you will find I like many others on this forum ignoring and often not even bothering to read what you have posted.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/15/2008 10:14 PM

SORRY,MASU,This is for sure the song of a guy who got lost some where and for sure its purpose too.I hope you will still to exchange with me and also your peers.I will improve my ENGLISH for the purpose of an UNIQUE and PRECISES way to COMMUNICATE .MASU also I do not reply for other outgoing .......I saw my name some where ,some of my INFO<>,propose name of "cointel" now I have discuss with my CLOSE FRIEND..and still do not satisfied me. I am a WELDER FITTER FIRST but with the WEB you never know.MASU..........................THERMO.....NOW I ask you please tell me about the SCALE.philippe martin.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/15/2008 10:42 PM

Of Gravitation..

The conservation of momentum holds at every conceivable instance of time when momentum is created within a

system

In English: The conservation of momentum (and, therefore, energy) holds even though bodies are not physically touching. Two or more bodies in a system can and do exchange momentum as long as the combined (total, net) momentum of such system remains constant (is conserved)

The (law of the) conservation of momentum is generalized by combining Kepler's "force of gravitation between bodies is mutual" and Newton's "instant action" while recognizing mechanisms other than collision for momentum transfer. The 'other-than-collision' component is the QM component.

The system aspect indicates two constructs: (1) System is composed of at least two bodies and (2) Intangible boundaries can be drawn identifying a

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/15/2008 10:51 PM

Intellectual Property Law and the Boundaries of the Firm


OREN BAR-GILL
New York University - School of Law
GIDEON PARCHOMOVSKY
University of Pennsylvania Law School


April 2005

U of Penn, Inst for Law & Econ Research Paper 05-10; NYU, Law and Economics Research Paper No. 04-06


Abstract:
Arrow's disclosure paradox implies that information that is not afforded legal protection cannot be bought or sold on the market. This paper emphasizes the important relationship between the paradox of disclosure and the boundaries of the firm question. Only legally protected inventions, i.e., patented inventions, may be traded; pre-patent stages of the innovation process may not. Consequently, by force of law, rather than by the guidance of economic principle, pre-patent innovation must be carried out within the boundaries of a single firm.


Keywords: Boundaries of the firm, disclosure paradox, intellectual property law

JEL Classifications: D23, K11, L22

Working Paper Series
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#31
In reply to #22

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/22/2008 2:02 AM

masu I know about the planet.but if this work on paper for me it mean (I inject air inside Hydrogen or I will compress it) also it will defiend the power of my gradian.I need to inject mass for take energy.and I alredy got the door I fond it 2 years ago a the LIBRARY....a QUANTUM door.I know like this seam not to sustainable....but it is not my purposes....I will chat about but no way for me to post....GUEST ...this will be more

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/13/2008 7:56 AM

It will be very interesting to follow this post!

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#26

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/17/2008 9:13 PM

Hi,

I'm doing research and am wondering if there is any explaination or theory as to why electric motors work. I know the right hand rule/lorentz law. What I'm after is what's happening in the quantum mechanics scale that's making the motor go, the intraction of electrons and atoms. ty


What I'm after is what's happening in the quantum mechanics scale that's making the motor go, the intraction of electrons and atoms. ty

electron can move through a vacuum,YES.Because we are into QUANTUM.Masu and I need some time one month.Jorrie and Roger prove to me after 100 years of wasting or TIME believing LIE will END after will defined a RATIO of a GEOMETRIC ERROR convert to a SCALE .After this will be able to compute or ERROR to a RATIO to A scale,at this point QUANTUM get READY will beat you.Philippe Martin

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/17/2008 9:16 PM

Masu sorry for the speling,I will get better.ZERO

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/17/2008 10:19 PM

Physics 102-002
Announcements

  • WebAssign –
    • Chapter 26 due next Monday
  • No class Wednesday
    • We'll cover Ch 28 next week
  • Exam 3 Corrections due Wed, Apr 25

Picture: National Science Foundation's Very Large Array (VLA) radio telescope image of a "spectacular and complex structure" in giant elliptical galaxy M87, the central galaxy of the Virgo Cluster of Galaxies. This photo shows two large, bubble-like lobes, more than 200,000 light-years across, that emit radio waves.

Class Schedule

Review

5/2

Light Emission (Pg 558-568) Midterm Exam #4

Chapter 30

4/30

Final Exam

5/7

Reflection and Refraction, Part 2 (Pg 540-551)

Chapter 28

4/25

No class

4/18

Reflection and Refraction, Part 1 (Pg 530-540)

Chapter 28

4/23

Properties of Light

Chapter 26

4/16

Magnetism, (Pg 458-470)

Chapter 24

4/11

Midterm Exam #3

4/9

Note the changes!!!

Chapter 26
Properties of Light

  • Electromagnetic Waves
    • Electromagnetic Wave Velocity
    • Electromagnetic Spectrum
  • Transparent Materials
  • Opaque Materials

What is Light?

When you look at something … anything … you are, in fact, seeing light -- light that somehow left the object far or near and reached your eyes. Light is all our eyes can really see.

You also encounter light in devices that produce light -- incandescent bulbs, fluorescent bulbs, lasers, lightning bugs, the sun. Each one uses a different technique to generate photons (or "pieces" of light)

Modern physicists believe that light can behave as both a particle and a wave. We will talk about light mostly as waves, because this provides the best explanation for most of the phenomena our eyes can see.

There are many different ways to produce photons, but all of them use the same mechanism inside an atom to do it. This mechanism involves the energizing of electrons orbiting an atom's nucleus

Electrons circle the nucleus in fixed orbits. An electron has a natural orbit that it occupies, but if you energize an atom you can move its electrons to higher orbitals. A photon of light is produced whenever an electron in a higher-than-normal orbit falls back to its normal orbit. During the fall from high-energy to normal-energy, the electron emits a photon -- a packet of energy -- with very specific characteristics. The photon has a frequency, or color, that exactly matches the distance the electron falls.

Electromagnetic Waves

If you shake a charged stick in the air, you create a current … a moving charge.

Recall that a moving charge emits a magnetic field. A changing magnetic field creates a changing electric field.

If the charge moves back and forth (oscillates), it emits an oscillating magnetic field. The oscillating magnetic field creates an oscillating electric field, which creates an oscillating magnetic field, and so on …

Both of these fields continuously regenerate each other and propagate out through all space.

This is an Electromagnetic Wave, and you can visualize it as shown.

The electric and magnetic fields oscillate in planes perpendicular to each other as the wave moves through space, both moving in the same direction at the same speed, and at the same frequency.

Electromagnetic Wave Velocity

James C. Maxwell

Light always moves through a vacuum at 3x108 m/s … ALWAYS!

(it travels a bit slower when moving through other materials, though)

In the 1800s, JC Maxwell was able to use the equations of electrostatics and magnetism to DERIVE the exact value for the speed of light in vacuum WITHOUT measuring it. His calculated value has since been experimentally verified many times over.

All electromagnetic radiation moves at this speed!

Maxwell discovered that visible light is electromagnetic radiation in the frequency range between 4.3X1014 Hz and 7x1014 Hz (vibrations per second).

Other types of electromagnetic radiation (radio waves, x-rays, tv signals, radar, etc) all have the same cause and nature as visible light, but just vibrate at different frequencies.

Notice that electromagnetic radiation doesn't need a medium to move through, it can move through a vacuum! That's because both electric and magnetic fields are transmitted through space without needing a medium.

The Electromagnetic Spectrum

The classification of electromagnetic waves according to frequency is the electromagnetic spectrum.

Visible light is less than 1 millionth of 1% of the EM spectrum

The EM Spectrum by frequency

The EM Spectrum by wavelength

The divisions between regions aren't sharp, they're a little fuzzy, and they overlap.

Also, some of the regions are further divided. For example, there are Near-, mid-, and far-infrared, and hard and soft x-rays.

Frequency and wavelength are related. The higher the frequency, the shorter the wavelength.

Further, frequency and wavelength are related to the speed of light.

Frequency x wavelength = speed of light

c=3x108 m/s in vacuum

Question 1

Question 1 Answer

Transparent Materials

Recall that light originates from the vibrations of electrons in atoms.

When light strikes a material, some of the electrons in the matter are forced to start vibrating at the same frequency as the light that struck the matter. These electrons emit light of the same frequency which strikes adjoining atoms, etc. In this way the light is transmitted through the material.

As the electrons in glass are set in vibration by incoming light, they re-emit light at the same frequency

Light at a given frequency is absorbed at "preferred" frequencies by atoms in much the same way that sound of a given frequency can start a matching tuning fork vibrating.

Because it takes time for atoms to absorb and re-emit light, it takes longer for light to travel through matter than for it to travel through a vacuum. The speed of light in "dense media" depends on the density of the medium.

In glass, light travels at 0.67c

Light travels at different speeds through oil and water, which is why an oil film on top of water has a "rainbow" effect.

Opaque Materials

Sometimes light at the right frequency matches the "resonant" frequency of the atoms in matter. In cases like this, the light sets the entire atom or molecule in vibration. When this happens, the electrons don't undergo a change in energy and light is not re-emitted. Much of the lights energy is lost in heating up the matter. Light doesn't get transmitted through the matter, and we say the substance is "opaque".

Glass is opaque to infrared and ultraviolet light, but is transparent to visible light.

Clouds are transparent to most ultraviolet light, but not visible light, which is why you can get sunburned on a cloudy day.

Shadows

Distinct shadow (Umbra) caused by small nearby light source or a large far away light source

Fuzzy, blurry shadow (Penumbra) caused by small nearby light source or a large far away light source

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/19/2008 4:08 AM

This will be my last ,the speed of light mean the time stop.and this I understand.how come the boss
Help Humanity also note this!

At the First Nikola Tesla Energy Science Conference & Exposition 2003, in Washington D.C., Prof. Dr.-Ing Konstantin Meyl presented his "Power Engineering Scalar Field Theory - Faraday vs. Maxwell and Demonstration of Longitudinal Wave Transmission" lecture, in which he explains:

* How one can modify the basic equations of electromagnetic field to include longitudinal waves which result in a true revolution in electromagnetics.
* How to correctly expand the classical electromagnetic field theory to include longitudinal/Tesla waves.
* How Faraday's experiments were actually describing a much broader electromagnetics than was later derived by Maxwell and curtailed to an even more primitive state by others so that
* How the missing experimental pieces eventually came from the work of Tesla.
* How the forgotten ideas of Nikola Tesla are the missing pieces which prevent scientists from reaching the goal of a comprehensible unified field theory.

!!! Meyl also presents a small version of his wireless transmission of energy, carrying electrical energy without losses to the other side of the table with an "impossible" 1.5-times the speed of light. !!!

!!! Meyl also discusses many new applications which can now be not only better understood but also built and used in our every day life !!!

"The impact of such an expansion is immense and requires a complete change in thinking and a revision of the very foundations of physics in general. Do scalar waves exist or not? In Meyl's extended field theory they come about naturally eliminating the need for any "exotic" theories such as as superstrings, dark matter, revising even the theory of relativity."

Presented at the First Nikola Tesla Energy Science Conference & Exposition 2003 in Washington DC before astonished audience who just couldn't believe what they were seeing. 110 min. long. A must see for everyone.I know c is the way to believe HUMAN IQ is not set for this.why the wave scare,evolution fear those who will be wrong.I am wrong but I do not FEAR.PHILIPPE MARTIN

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Why Do Motors Work?

03/19/2008 4:10 AM

This will be my last ,the speed of light mean the time stop.and this I understand.how come the boss
Help Humanity

Albert Einstein Biography and Pictures: Young Albert Einstein (patent clerk)"When forced to summarize the general theory of relativity in one sentence: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter. ... Physical objects are not in space, but these objects are spatially extended. In this way the concept 'empty space' loses its meaning. ... The particle can only appear as a limited region in space in which the field strength or the energy density are particularly high. ...
The free, unhampered exchange of ideas and scientific conclusions is necessary for the sound development of science, as it is in all spheres of cultural life. ... We must not conceal from ourselves that no improvement in the present depressing situation is possible without a severe struggle; for the handful of those who are really determined to do something is minute in comparison with the mass of the lukewarm and the misguided. ...
Humanity is going to need a substantially new way of thinking if it is to survive!" (Albert Einstein)....This is the BOSS.why no one listen to the BOSS.your tape measure,your scale,or CAD read Imperial but your contract is METRIC why convert ?I just by or adjust my tape,my scale,or my software.c as a human to complex,maximum

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