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Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/01/2009 3:10 PM

HI,

I am an embedded electronics systems designer ...(I would like to beleive that)... and am not clear with optics

For one of the projects that we are dealing with we need to illuminate the suface.

Let us consider illuminating an 8 inch square or 200mmx200mm sqaure plate with as few sources as possible.

I tried using the principle used by LED back-lit LCDs but could not find the specialised gratings or prisms... What I learnt from being with my dad(well he is into the lighting industry..) is that acrylic and frosted glass can also be used as diffusers and light pipes(I understand that they are both different uses of the material.)

I tried to use the same. The resulting effects are promising but not quite what I intended.

I have chosen a 5mm thick, 200mmx200mm mirrored glass plate with the uncoated side, sand blasted.

When I place a high brightness LED (I shall try posting pics and the LED part number tomorrow) on the centre of the thin edge of the plate a triangular illumination pattern is observed. It is similar to an equilateral triangle (3 inch side or 75mm)with the one of the triangle vertices being at the contact point of the LED. Though this is interesting, it is nowhere close to what I need. I require total surface illumination. I tried the same with a one side frosted acrylic. But the results in glass were better. The Glass used is float glass with a relative index of 1.54

My Senior keeps telling me that I need to look into diffraction gratings and such. But I dont know if that would help or even if it did where and whom do I approach.

Please help me learn more about total internal reflection to enable me to design this surface illuminator.

I have a few questions:

1. When The light is passed through one of the thin sides of the plate such that the direction of the beam is parallel to the flat surface, Why does the light not get to illuminate the flat surface if the surface is not frosted (is the light still escaping through the surface or is it getting reflected internally). Help me explain the phenomenon to my senior. (I think that internal reflection takes place and hence we cannot see the point source)

2. Will it help if I have the other three thin sides mirrored?

3. Will it help if both the flat surfaces are mirrored and then one of the sides is frosted to also partially remove the mirror coating?

4. Is there a better way to achieve the results than tinkering with frostings. Do I really need to go ahead and search for gratings.

5. Help me calculate (guide me) the surface illumination intensity, given the relative index of material, intensity of source, surface area of illumination. Or please tell me what else I need to consider. Or is there a better way to go about it.

6. Would increasing the relative index help?

regards,

Vishal...

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#1

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 5:07 AM

I've done this in the past (long time ago), I used a clear acrylic panel with the back face & edges painted white. I'm fairly sure that it required 3 or 4 LEDs in the 2 opposing long edges to get an even surface illumination. I think I have some information on this at home which I will dig out this evening.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 10:37 AM

Thanks a lot Nigh....

So just painting them white will do???

So that should work with the glass mirror as well..

Also can you let me know what was the surface dimension.

regards,

vishal.... +91 99401 31329...

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 10:43 AM

I'm going by memory here which is not always reliable but I think it was about 8" x 3".

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 10:52 AM

It still required 3 - 4 LEDs on either side...???

I might seriously have to reconsider my approach as in the 8x8 model I might also have to negotiate with the angle of dispersion of the LED itself....

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 11:01 AM

No, I think it was 3 or 4 LEDs in total in the 2 longest opposing edges. Bear in mind that my recollection is from 10 or more years ago, I imagine that LED performance has improved a lot in that time.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 11:04 AM

Yes ... a lot.. I was not able to post the images today. I shall do that tomorrow.. was a lill busy with another load of work at office....

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/03/2009 10:12 AM

I searched around at home but only found 1 very old document from Liteflow Panels. That refers to the use of filament lamps so I guess it predates the common use of LEDs.

It does confirm the use of an acrylic panel with white coating.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/04/2009 11:50 AM

Hello Nigh,

I did try the white coating. But the difference may be marginal as opposed to no coating.

I am seriously thinking of requesting the glass to be mirrored on all sides (three sides and one flat surface plane.) by a mirror maker close to my home. Off the 8 inches, there is still a band of 1 inch glass in the centre that is poorly illuminated.(I think most of the light is already emitted from the glass plane though the frosting).

I am thinking of contouring the surface or the frost gradient to achieve better results. hope that works...

Please correct me if I am wrong to believe that the frosting is done to make a portion of the light to emanate from the surface, which would otherwise continue to pass through the glass surface due to total internal reflection. As well the frosting helps the light to seen(by dispersion or else we can only see the source.). As light itself cannot be seen but only its effects on other objects can be seen.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/07/2009 4:42 AM

I've never tried the frosting but I can imagine that it would cause the light to be emitted instead of reflected. The only close thing I've seen is panels made from acrylic laminates that had clear centres & darker cladding. The cladding would be engraved to allow the light to escape.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/12/2009 12:53 AM

Thanks for the tip Nigh.

Would you have a link or a picture.... on that.

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#12
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Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/25/2009 7:14 AM

Sorry vish I've only just seen your post. The specs referenced in the document I have are old but the equivalent now seems to be SAE AS7788.

The document I have describes that material as 'clear acrylic sheet clad with a white layer 0.008 thick then clad with a black layer'.

The clear core gives you internal reflection with the white layer increasing reflection & the black layer preventing stray light escaping. The panels would be engraved through the cladding & into the clear core wherever illuminated legends were required.

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#4

Re: Light Pipe Based Surface Illumination

12/02/2009 10:50 AM

Please also help clarify the points...

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