Previous in Forum: Soap to Prevent A1H1N1 Contamination   Next in Forum: Nickel Percentage and Welding AISI 202
Close
Close
Close
4 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Phase Separation in Gasoline

12/13/2009 8:02 AM

I am a small engine technician. I have found several of my customers with gasoline in their 4 cycle units with gasoline that has seperated and will not run. I was informed by a petroleum distributer that what is occuring is known as "Phase Seperation". What causes this? What does it do the the gas? How can this be prevented?

Thank you,

Steve Jenkins

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: Phase Separation in Gasoline

12/13/2009 9:15 AM

I'd heard of this, but didn't know what causes it. Maybe this will help:

Phase Separation in Gasoline

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#2

Re: Phase Separation in Gasoline

12/13/2009 10:57 AM

Yup, Lynch is right again! I have worked in the Fuels industry for 12 years and closely watched the introduction of ethanol blends to my military fuel systems. If you have a 10% blend of ethanol it can 'soak' up about 10% it's total volume of water but any more and it will drop out entirely.

It is the hygroscopic nature of alcohols that causes the problem. Before the introduction of blended fuels you would add some type of "Dry gas" product if you suspected water was in your gas. This was ethanol and it completely mixed with your water to produce a flammable liquid. When ethanol is mixed with water, the water doesn't go away, it dilutes into the gasoline and is turned into vapor when it goes through the carburetor or fuel injectors and proceeds through the engine. Our engines are not designed for this and it results in slightly lowered performance until the fuel is gone or diluted enough.

Water in fuels during the refining , storing and transporting process is more common than you know. When we would receive a batch of fuel from the refinery, we test it for water. If the water separates, we drain it away completely and recover the fuel that drains out with it. If the fuel is cloudy with entrained water, we run it through filters designed to remove it. Water can also be picked up in bulk storage through open roof floating pan storage tanks or in pipelines that collect water in low points from previous batches. It is for this reason, that the ethanol is not introduced to gasoline until it is put into the truck going to your service station. We can drain and filter out water only until it is blended with ethanol. This is why I always suggest using gas stations that are well maintained and do not allow water to get into their systems.

If you read the entire article it explains many of the problems we face with ethanol blended gasolines. I know this sounds scary and the drop in miles per gallon got alot of media attention, but it isn't all bad. In my humble opinion, regardless of the global warming debate I would still pay more for less efficient gasoline blends as long as it puts crops that pay in farmers fields. I know the media claims this will cause skyrocketing produce prices, but what would you rather do? Spend more money in your own country paying people who will also spend that money here or export that money to a foreign country that is probably in a part of the world that has extremists who hate the "Western" cultures?

Now I tried to write that carefully, because there are many people in the world who hate the Muslim nations. I do not. In my military and civilian career, I lived in Muslim nations and made many friends there. I believe they are a peaceful people and it is the power hungry extremists who make them look bad, no worse than the misled Christian crusaders.

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Phase Separation in Gasoline

12/13/2009 10:54 PM

Actually, the biggest producer of ethanol for fuel purposes is Brazil, a basically Catholic country, whose "terrorists" are more interested in selling drugs in the US rather than sabotaging the infrastructure (in spite of being in bed with Chavez of Venezuela). There has been some talk of ethanol production here in Panama, but it turns out that rum is more popular (and more profitable...).

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 8
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Phase Separation in Gasoline

12/14/2009 11:40 AM

I do appreciate your answer too. However, there might be an explanation to your statement, quoting you:

.. or export that money to a foreign country that is probably in a part of the world that has extremists who hate the "Western" cultures?

Could it be that these people hate us because we attack them and make war in their countries? Killing untold people and disrupting their lives?

What would we do here if another power, stronger than us with far superior weapons would invade us destroy our building, infrastructure and our way of life, killing family members, etc. What would our reaction be? Would we not fight back even with a stick and try to free yourselves?

I just wonder how it would look to us if it were the other way around.

Just my 2 cents.

__________________
'The devil is in the detail'. Yes, but if the details are right the devil is on vacation.
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 4 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

cwarner7_11 (1); Drew K (1); Floram (1); lyn (1)

Previous in Forum: Soap to Prevent A1H1N1 Contamination   Next in Forum: Nickel Percentage and Welding AISI 202
You might be interested in: Petroleum and Mineral Oil Products, Fuel Testers

Advertisement