Humidifier for House with a Piano

I can size one for you. I need to know what size equipment you have and what the cooling tons are. It should be fairly quick, but I need that info. first.

Hello TLGEngrCo,

I have Carrier 70,000 BTU 80% AFUE variable speed Infinity furnace model 58CVX070112, ADP 3 ton coil model HD14648D175 with TXV, Carrier 3 ton 14 SEER Puron condenser model 38TXA0363, Carrier digital programmable Infinity control model SYSTXCCUID01, Carrier humidifier model HUMCCSBP2312 and Carrier 4" media filter.

Thanks!

Sorry I need one more piece of information. Where are you what part of the country so I can figure your outdoor temps.

I'm in Pasadena, CA.

I think in the summer you will easily have 50% RH maintained. The winter given your conditions requires a 10.5 pound per hour load. http://www.humiditysource.com/electro.html The model needed is the ELMC-5, 11 pounds per hour. I see you list your old one in litres. Do you add water to this or is it done automatically?

Last summer was less of an issue, the indoor relative humidity stayed between 35-45%, but so did the outdoor one. I kept the log of both, and of the temperatures. I had an additional hygrometer/thermometer for calibration, and my conclusion was that the humidifier did not do much.
The 12-liter designation came from the OEM through my contractor, so I'll have to find out what it actually means and how it relates to the lb/hr units. The water is added automatically since the humidifier is hooked up to the house water supply. The drain outside the house is dripping all the time even in the winter, telling me the water is at least going through the humidifier.

I just found the spec sheet for my humidifier at

http://www.xpedio.carrier.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/hum-4pd.pdf

and realized that my model was actually a 12-gallon/day rather than "12-liter" unit. I apologize for the mix-up. From the spec sheet the conversion factor between gallon/day and lb/hr seems to be 2.89, so based on your calculation I would need a 32-gallon/day unit. Now I'm getting somewhere, so thank you very much!

Also, on page 4 of this spec sheet there's a table with maximum moisture requirements for given environmental conditions (but not applicable to my case) and for two types of houses: tight and average. When you plug those same environmental conditions (found under *) into your calculations, do you come up with the same numbers for an average house? I'm just wondering if all other assumptions are identical.

Your welcome.

Modern pianos are much less sensitive to the level of relative humidity than their forebears (sic). So do you really need/want to humidify the whole house? We use simple humidifier-tubes (perforated plastic tubes with internal sponges) hung under the piano. As regards a 2002 model B, its worst enemy would probably be direct sunlight, but I guess you've already dealt with this. As these pianos only respond rather slowly to changes in Relative Humidity, a simple hydrometer inside the piano will give you ample warning when you need to recharge the tubes (ours are refilled in rotation, so the humidity inside the piano only fluctuates by about 10%). Of course, it helps if you minimise air-flow around the piano, and plants in the room can help stabilise the general environment. We've used this system (or equivalents) for many years with a couple of 1920s pianos***, and never seen any problem due to drying out or to overhumidity (which can be equally bad). The only change we made when we took on our 2004 model B was to ensure continuous shading to protect the polyester finish (you may have been lucky and found one you liked with more traditional surfaces?).
***One of these broke our 'rules', and was/is in the dryest place in the atrium under an unshaded skylight. The only apparent effect was/is that we need to charge the tubes more frequently - oh, and the wood bleached a little.

Prejudices: a well-chosen* Model B is in my opinion the best piano Steinway have ever made (plastics keys and polyester finish not withstanding); and they are very durable. Faziolis have a purer sound, but need specialised tuning to maintain this (the tuning of the overtones needs to be maintained), and we couldn't find a local tuner who knew the system. For concert grands I favour Boesendorfer** or (again) Fazioli, as the Steinway model D is overly optimised for raw power for my taste.
*Though variations in action and timbre mean that not all of them are great.
**They can have the power as well, as they are very large instruments

Enjoy your playing

Fyz

P.S. Did you mean 1200 sq ft? A 70k B.Th.U. furnace sounds a lot for that size home, leaks and all.

P.P.S. If in doubt, check with your tuner or local supplier. (And you may find you get more realistic advice from a piano restorer than from your immediate supplier or even from Steinway themselves)

Hello Fyz,

thanks for your comments and suggestions, I'm eager to hear what others are doing regarding the humidity control since this is my first piano and I'm a beginner. As you can tell, I'm still doing my homework, gathering information from various sources in order to treat it with optimum care and respect it deserves. Today is its first anniversary in my home! It was a festival piano in Aspen, CO before I bought it as "new", so it had been well-voiced, and I had a good pianist go with me to pick one. I'd say it's very well-chosen.

Our house is rather small, 1200 sq. ft. indeed (I have no idea how many B.Th.U.'s would be adequate for the furnace), and the piano is located in an open-floor area that accounts for more than half the house, so when the new heating/AC system was installed (before the piano there was no AC), I thought it would be better to include a whole-house humidifier rather than micro-manage humidity around the piano. Here in California it gets really dry in the winter, so the whole-house humidifier would be also good for people and artworks in the house.

My piano has standard polyester finish like yours, and is well protected from sunlight (not hard to accomplish in a dark craftsman-style house). The only other issue is its proximity to the main door, but there's not much room to maneuver. My piano tuner didn't object to the location, though. He will prepare a quote for humidistat installation in case the whole-house humidifier solution doesn't work out. He is Steinway's expert concert tuner who was trained in Europe and the U.S., knows quite a lot about Faziolis and Boesendorfers, he also restores pianos and plays beautifully.

Hello kecman

That's some piano for a "beginner". But it's a great idea, because it will maximise your enjoyment at every stage. Part of the point I was trying to make was that (sort-of like people) the more respect the piano deserves the less it will demand. My philosophy has been to do just a little bit more than enough so that the instrument doesn't suffer, rather than the maximum possible. (The family's stringed instruments have different requirements again, that are also met by localised humidity control)

We lived in the LA area for a time, so I've a pretty good idea what it's like in the winter. As it was a limited posting, we rented (both house and piano), and the house didn't have air conditioning either (it was a long time ago). The humidification for the hire piano was the same as I always use - it too came to no harm.

BTW, our piano tuner is also a rather competent player - just that it seems he loves pianos as much as he does music.

Fyz

One more question: with your humidifier in place and temperature under control, how often have you had to tune your model B? I understand that other factors can affect the tuning stability, these two seem to be the most crucial.

Thanks for your time!

With moderate usage and gentle playing, atmosphere would be the limiting factor - but I doubt it is with us, as it is played between 2 and 3 hours daily on average, including some quite demanding* repertoire.
*Both of player and piano - but I only do the easier stuff - I'm more of a strings player.

Our tuner comes every three months (by which time I can hear it needs attention). We have the older piano tuned at the same time, although it is not really ready. By way of comparison, before Steinway the playing was more evenly distributed between two pianos, and the need (still at three months - because good tuners' books are always full) for tuning was more obvious.

Regards

Fyz

Yamaha? Steinway? Just curious!

It's Steinway model B, year 2002. A real beauty and well worth the trouble!