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Questions About the Sun

03/17/2010 9:45 PM

"Is it true that our sun is producing about 3.8 x 1023 kiloWatts (or kiloJoules/sec)?" I believe I am right with this formula.

If so our sun is delivering billions of mega watts of energy that is coming from the core.

Second question; "The energy coming from the core would be moving by convection rather than by radiation, would it not?"

Third question, "if I may," is the real reason for this whole mirage of questions; "Does anyone think there is a real concern for our Magnetospere as our sun has its polar shift in 2012? From my studies I do not find where the polar shifts on our sun really effect us in a way to be worried, am I right?"

Thanks for any sound info on this subject.

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#1

Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/17/2010 11:08 PM

No no no, you are way off. The average luminosity of the sun is listed at 3.846 * 1026 Watts. Oh wait a minute, you just have a typo and did not have 23 as a power and used kilowatts instead of watts. Sorry

I occasionally dabble in astronomy so my information may not be the current beliefs. I highly recommend the Wikipedia link for current accurate ideas. The energy from core reactions takes a considerable amount of time to reach the photosphere that we see, my fuzzy memory says that it takes a couple of thousand years. There are multiple mechanisms that bring this energy to the surface. I believe the dominant one was once believed to be convection, but I do remember somebody proposing that magnetic and electrostatic coupling might be transporting more power in this big plasma ball. What bolsters that argument is that during periods of sun spot activity, the sun emits much more power than when no spots exist.

Now, where did you hear that the sun is scheduled to have a polar shift in 2012? Don't tell you believed that global Poseidon adventure movie titled 2012? Hollywood doesn't care for real science, they much prefer sensational pseudoscience.

We just recently came out of a longer than normal lack of sunspot activity last I heard. But new sunspots were being recorded recently.

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#2
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/17/2010 11:28 PM

No, I do not believe in Hollywood, it was a article we were give to review for next weeks class that was supposed to be put out by NASA according to the thread given to check out. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread531332/pg1

I would like to give a good response and also be more learned in this area.

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#3
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 10:55 AM

Ok, so looking at just your link and adding the information that I remembered that we just started to come out of a solar minimum a solar pole reversal cycle just happened. It makes sense that a magnetic field reversal would happen when less sunspot activity is present. And that high storm activity will be when the magnetic dynamo is in relatively fixed alignment. But more to the point, this is a normal occurrence that happens frequently. It will likely be a root cause of many random process events that will be difficult to impossible to track but life will again go on.

I would look over the pages of the National Solar Observatory and in particular some of the research done at the Mc-Math Pierce Solar Telescope.

I think you'll find that this is actually a pseudo-documentary made for TV like the Science channel. These documentaries mostly do a good job conveying new ideas to the populace but they frequently get details wrong. I suspect the coincident timing of the pole reversal with peak solar storm activity is precisely one such mistake.

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#4
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 11:09 AM

Thank you, I will now prepare myself to take on the whole class no doubt, I love going against the flow in the media. ha ha. I guess I will soon be on the media's wacky list, but that is a good place to be with our media in the shape it is in.

I will read over the links provided by you and go from there.

Thanks for your comments.

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#5
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 10:35 PM

At the core, where it is hot enough and dense enough for fusion, all the energy is produced. The free path of radiation through the solar plasma is very small, so the heat does not 'shine' out. Convection is how it works its way to the surface and we then see it.

The energy density of the sun as a whole is less than what a human metabolizes, weight for weight.

Only the core of the sun fuses. The rest is a passive radiator. It is complex, rotation, sunspots etc. google it.

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#7
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 11:04 PM

"The energy density of the sun as a whole is less than what a human metabolizes, weight for weight."

Another interesting piece of knowledge to have; I will research this some more and use this in my discussion next week.

Thanks for your input, I am grateful.

"Through adversity to the stars" RAAF, RNZAF AND RCAF; Very good motto.

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#9
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 11:27 PM

I'm not so sure about your energy density there. I wonder where you got that data?

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#11
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/19/2010 7:24 AM

I remember this from my physics courses back in the 60's, and this reference will suffice. Counter intuitive is it not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

The energy production per unit time (power) produced by fusion in the core varies with distance from the solar center. At the center of the sun, fusion power is estimated by model to be about 276.5 watts/m3,[37a power production density which more nearly approximates reptile metabolism than a thermonuclear bomb. [38] Peak power production in the Sun has been compared to the volumetric heats generated in an active compost heap. The tremendous power output of the Sun is not due to its high power per volume, but instead due to its large size.

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#6
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 10:48 PM

The sun does this polat shift every 11 years already! and just did the last one either last year or the year before. it's been doing this for billions of years every 11 years, so don't worry be happy,,

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#8
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 11:14 PM

Not worring, just trying to prepare for the talk next week in class. Hoping to gather info that may stop the students from sucking down all the info they receive from their teachers and have the attitude that "it must be true and serious"

Hoping to help seperate truth from lie.

Thanks for your comment.

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#10
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/18/2010 11:53 PM

Two generic added pieces of information for you about the sun that I know are true that you should with some research verify. (Neither may be pertinent to your talk but their fun anyway.)

The hottest part of the sun is not the core, its the wispy layer above the photosphere called the corona. I think that technically why this is true is still a mystery. But I do remember that one theory was that the boundary between the corona and space reflected back a significant amount of energy. So in essence this low density part of the sun gets heated from the inside and the outside.

Also this ultra hot layer is why you should not look directly at a total eclipse. In a total eclipse, the moon covers the photosphere blocking the visible light from the most brilliant part of the sun. The ultra hot corona extends well past the edges of the moon's silhouette but is emitting most of the non-visible ultra-violet light. If you now look at the sun, your dilated pupils will close down from the visible glare and all of the ultra-violet light will be focused on your retina. The very last place on one's body that you would want a sunburn.

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#12
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/19/2010 10:11 AM

"The hottest part of the sun is not the core, its the wispy layer above the photosphere called the corona."

Are you sure of your facts? Look at the activation energy, "temperature" where the nuclear fusion reactions occur. I think there is an order of magnitude difference between the core temperature and the corona "temperature".

THE TEMPERATURE OF THE SUN
The Sun's core can reach 10 to 22.5 million°F. The surface temperature is approximately 9,900°F (5,500°C). The outer atmosphere of the Sun (which we can see during a solar eclipse) gets extremely hot again, up to 1.5 to 2 million degrees. At the center of big sunspots the temperature can be as low as 7300 °F (4300 K, 4000 °C). The temperature of the Sun is determined by measuring how much energy (both heat and light) it emits. (This doesn't even include all the neutrinos, etc that the sun emits).

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#13
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/19/2010 10:21 AM

You're quite right. NASA has a good page on precisely this. I can claim a fuzzy memory on this one and maybe I can also say that my comment should be rephrased to the parts of the sun that can be directly measured. Good catch.

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#14
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/19/2010 11:01 AM

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the precise information in the relationship between the Sun and our Earth. I only would like to get your input about; How we can transfer this huge energy from the Sun to heat our houses one simple or simplest way?

I will appreciate your knowledgeable answer. Have a nice weekend, Gil.

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#15
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

03/19/2010 1:26 PM

Thanks for the info, I looked it up and it will be of great use in our studies.

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#19
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Re: OUR SUN WHICH WE SO MUCH DEPEND ON...

06/09/2011 7:27 PM

Redfred has the nearest truth, so far, as we cannot possibly measure below the photosphere surface. In fact the umbra of a sunspot is the best view of the sun's core we can get, and it's coolest too.

Here's an alternative view, looking at what we can measure, without preconceived 1950s ideas of nuclear fusion.

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#16

Re: Questions About the Sun

03/19/2010 2:46 PM

As I understand it it takes 1 million years for a photon to travel from the sun`s core to the surface. So we are bathed in light 1 million years old.

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#17
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Re: Questions About the Sun

03/19/2010 3:11 PM

Interesting, if this fact is true.

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#18
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Re: Questions About the Sun

03/19/2010 3:28 PM

yes, it is the solution to a random walk problem at the temp and pressure of the sun at the core. If only there were an elevator shaft for it to get out, but then there is, when you get collapse, you get the neutrinos taking the elevator out...

http://www.astrophysicsspectator.com/topics/supernovae/SupernovaeCoreCollapse.html

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