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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: florida
Posts: 86

Gasification of Scrap Metal

03/20/2010 9:52 PM

Dear group.
There are those among you who have the knowledge to quantify the amount
of thermal energy which can be theoretically extracted from a chemical
reaction. I have heard some say that on a quite night you can hear a ford
rusting, This brings up the following question:
If you instantly converted the Ford to a pile of rust, how much heat could
be obtained. I have seen an experiment where a quartz tube is packed with
steel wool and heated with a Bunson to a vigorous temperature while steam is
blown through the packed tube. The result, as you all know is the
evolution of hydrogen as the red hot metal absorbs the oxygen from the hot H2O
(steam). This is somewhat like the reverse process, When heat was applied in
the presence of carbon in order to absorb the oxygen from the ore. So we
have in a way reversed the process, which brings me to a puzzling question
after I had read the following statement:

"The losses can (in theory) be arbitrarily close to zero, so the maximum
thermodynamic efficiency equals the enthalpy change divided by the free
energy change of the reaction. In most cases, the electric input is larger than
the enthalpy change of the reaction, so some energy is released in the form
of heat. In some cases, for instance, in the electrolysis of steam into
hydrogen and oxygen at high temperature, the opposite is true. Heat is
absorbed from the surroundings, and the heating value of the produced hydrogen is
higher than the electric input".

Is it feasable to extract the energy that went into producing the metal
from the ore?
Would it be possible to build a metal burning gasifier?
Like a totally enclosed plasma furnace with a steam supply?
I just happen to have access to an abundant supply of metal shavings.

GF

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Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Analog and Digital Circuit Design Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Transformers, Motors & Drives, EM Launchers Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Applied Electrical, Optical, and Mechanical

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 1207
Good Answers: 119
#1

Re: gasification of scrap metal

03/21/2010 1:47 AM

Suggest you turn in the metal for SCRAP value at the nearest metal recycling facility. Other than some isolated and specific reactions (thermite?), trying to extract some of the original ore processing energy from the refined metal will not be worth your effort.

Recycling metals can be cost effective since this secondary process typically uses far less energy than the original raw ore gathering and processing. Recycling is also the best use of your energy to help conserve natural resources and reduce pollution.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: florida
Posts: 86
#3
In reply to #1

Re: gasification of scrap metal

03/22/2010 12:02 PM

I have to dissagree with you on the energy issue. The scrap material possesses close to the energy saved by the smelter on reprocessing. or they would not bother with it.

I feel that producing say, ALuminum oxide could be just as utilltarian as weighing the metal in at the scrap yard, feric oxide also has value. think of the other industries?that require fillers and ceramics.

Coming back to the value of machine shop scrap. about 40% depreciates dramaticall befor leaving the shop as it often gets contaminated with other metals and materials. when lathes and milling machines change jobs. rendering it almost valueless.

Turning such material into hydrogen would have beneficial results.

GF

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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
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#2

Re: Gasification of Scrap Metal

03/22/2010 11:46 AM

There is a reason they don't use the thermal process for generating hydrogen. You can also get hydrogen by blowing steam across burning Coke in a low oxygen condition. However, thermal processes are not efficient, you have to provide a lot of nergy in the form of heat, of which a large proportion gets lost.

FYI, thermite reaction is aluminum reduction of ferric oxide.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: florida
Posts: 86
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Gasification of Scrap Metal

03/22/2010 12:15 PM

We are all well aware of the FT process. we are also well aware that an ICE wastes 75% of it' energy input as heat. So wheres the problem ?

An endothermic and an exothermal reactiom if married, could produce energy from available low cost "FUEL" namely scrap metal.

GF

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