Previous in Forum: Coriolis Flow   Next in Forum: Pneumatic Actuated Rack and Pinion Positioning
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Supercharger lubrication

02/15/2007 5:22 AM

Hi all,

I am a student in Chalmers University of Technology and I am involved with Chalmers Formula Student Team, it is a project where we have to design, built and compete a complete racing car. We are using a 600cc yamaha engine and we are going to supercharge it. The problem is that we decided to put the compressor in a low position, and thus the output oil from its lubrication is below the oil level in the sump. Do you think we will have any problem if we connect it directly to the sump? (like oil coming back in the compressor) Some people says yes and other people says it could be OK so what do you think about that?

Thank you for your help

Mathieu

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Brazil - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - Hey there... interested in exchanging information about car performance? Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Porto Alegre - RS - Brazil 30deg01'39.73"S 51deg13'43.45"W
Posts: 831
Good Answers: 28
#1

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/15/2007 6:32 AM

I'd say yes, you'll have problems because you will basically pressurize your compressor bearings housing, will fill it completely with oil, and then the pressure would have to force the oil back to the sump. It''s more likely to see many problems with oil seals with this configuration. In commercial applications, if you have a small heigh difference between the oil return point and the sump, scavenge pumps are used.

If the compressor position is mandatory, I'd think about installing a oil sump and scavenge pump for the compressor. But it's becoming complicated, more components to give you problems in the race, and to spend energy that could be directed to the wheels.

So, If I were you, I'd choose to increase the turbine and/or compressor tubes and hoses to a convenient position, instead of making this arrangement.

__________________
Humm... suspicious you are...
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 39
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/16/2007 12:35 AM

In dry sump engines they use a small pickup pump to pump the oil into a reservoir. They are simple to hook up.

Reply
Guru
Brazil - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - Hey there... interested in exchanging information about car performance? Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Porto Alegre - RS - Brazil 30deg01'39.73"S 51deg13'43.45"W
Posts: 831
Good Answers: 28
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/16/2007 4:49 AM

In a vessel or dry sump, undoubtely works well.

But it is still another pump to deal!

__________________
Humm... suspicious you are...
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - United Kingdom - Member - Get things done!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: East Anglia, UK
Posts: 2003
Good Answers: 3
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/16/2007 5:22 AM

Most dry sump pumps have 3 stages, 2 scavenge and 1 main. It's easy enough to add another stage and use that, and they are very reliable. I've only known one to fail due to crash damage.

__________________
'The truth is out there' The lies are in your head.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member United States - Member - New Member Hobbies - Hunting - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 791
Good Answers: 17
#5

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/16/2007 3:43 PM

If you don't find a way to get the extra oil out of the compressor, you will drown your bearings in oil. You don't want your bearings to run in a bath, they work better with a light coating, as I'm sure your instructors have taught you. First you have to overcome the forces of the oil bath, loss of efficiency, then you get what is known as oil whip, that is a condition of too much oil coming between a shaft and a bearing, that can be seen as vibration in the compressor that should be about 1.5 to 2X rotation.

Good luck

__________________
Be careful of what you wish for .....
Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 110
Good Answers: 3
#6

Re: Supercharger lubrication

02/16/2007 4:21 PM

I doubt if you will have any problem. Turbo bearing inlet oil pressure is what 40-60 psi at least. Turbo bearing outlet oil pressure will be some value less than that. What is the pressure in the crankcase much less than that right? Because the crankcase is vented to the atmosphere right? A few inches of height difference uphill from the Turbo bearing oil outlet to the crankcase sump will be insignificant.

__________________
ONE TEST IS WORTH A THOUSAND EXPERT OPINIONS
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: Supercharger lubrication

03/07/2007 6:25 PM

The answer to this question is very dependant on the type of supercharger you are planning to use. Is it a positive displacement or centrifugal type? If it is positive displacement you will have two meshing gears contained within the bearing housing which must be run in an oil bath and not completely submerged. If it is a positive displacement type I would suggest a self contained sump for the supercharger. If it is a centrifugal type the main concern is maintaining a healthy flow of oil through the bearings. Provided the superchargers required inlet oil pressure + the backflow oil pressure provided by the head pressure of the sump = the available pressure at the inlet of the supercharger from your oil pump I would feel very confident about the set-up. Also by having the supercharger mounted below the sump you will be guaranteed that the supercharger will be full oil oil when you fire her up.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 7 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); bhrescobar (2); erssk (1); Labyguy (1); pilotcraig2001 (1); PlbMak (1)

Previous in Forum: Coriolis Flow   Next in Forum: Pneumatic Actuated Rack and Pinion Positioning

Advertisement