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Anonymous Poster

Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 1:16 AM

Hi there,

I supposed to mount high power LED on PCB and MCPCBs...I try to find out solder paste for the process...meanwhile, I have silver conductive paint in my laboratory...some suggest i can use it...but I'm do not know how far they sure about it...is it possible for me to use silver conductive paint as the paste for the process..even I do not have the facility to run the reflow soldering method. I only have ordinary oven.I thought of run it in a normal way..set a particular temperature for an interval of time and see the results...if anyone have any idea on this please advise me....thanks in advance.

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#1

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 4:39 AM

Silver paint is not solder paste. Silver paint is Ag particles that rely on contact between particles for conductivity.

Solder is Sn/Pb that is melted and flowed into an alloy that is highly conductive compared to paint particles.

Do it right, or don't bother.

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#2

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 7:20 AM

There's not an absolute answer. Some silver filled epoxies are also called silver paint, and you may (or may not) have one of those. The thing you have to look at is the thermal resistance of your "paint". If you don't know that, don't use it. If you do know it, do a calculation of the power you must pass across the junction and look at the temperature rise needed to achieve that.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 12:01 PM

Volume resistivity of E&C 56c electrically conductive adhesive is .00020 ohm-cm.

I stilll contend that you need solder paste and a reflow oven to do a proper job.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 3:24 PM

Well of course you do! But he doesn't want to do that.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 3:54 PM

And that's why he is doomed to fail.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 7:43 AM

Failure is the greatest teacher of all. Or, at least the first time.

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#6

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/02/2010 10:52 PM

conductive paints depend on a high metal content coupled with particles that either do not form an insulating oxide layer, as with gold and platinum, or whose oxide layer is also conducting, silver is the one I know that is like this.

They are made with a varnish and metal particles that have been rolled flat by a milling process that both shears the particles into their smallest size, and elongates them. This is done on three roll mills. (these are mills where the ink goes through the nip and the rollers move at a differential velocity). The nip pressure, and speed is controlled, and they are water cooled. Mills like this can shear hard materials. They also make sure the varnish wets the particles.

The inks are usually thick and voscous, but even so, the high density gold and silver tend to settle, so they must be mixed on opening.

The conductive path is painted and allowed to dry. As the solvent evaporates the varnish and particles settle into a flat layer with many common contact points For higher currents extra coats are laid down.

You can probably run small signal devices and LEDs with these, but you would have to lay down a very large path for high current. At which point wire wins.

Since these are a maze of small contacts they cannot be considered for high current uses.

The fine silver powder is worth about $50-100/ounce and is made of $20 an ounce silver. Varnish and solvents are cheap. The milling and other prep work will cause the final ink to be quite costly. $200 or so per ounce? I see in this link some priced at $32 for 14 grams. This must be low % silver. true conductive inks are 90% silver after the solvent have evaporated.

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=silver+%2Bink+%2Bconductive&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=silver+%2Bink+%2Bconductive&gs_rfai=&fp=2a80292b88be7c76

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#7

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 12:02 AM

Silver paint does not contain silver, would be too expensive, it contains aluminium powder.The electrical counductivity of the paint would not be sufficient for use in any electrical circuit. Also the joints made by this paint will not last since the tensile strength of the paint would be nowhere near the solder strength.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 3:55 AM

The material to which I referred is indeed filled with silver (Ag) particles. For you to make such obviously uninformed claims is outrageous, and misleading.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 7:36 AM

Hey, I did not mean any offense, if I have hurt you while communicating, I am sorry. I think I have to improve upon my communication skills.

I just wanted to address the common misconception that I have come across while working on reflective coating for solar cooker. I am often told the coating/paint is either "silver" or mercury, and on enquiry, turns out to be aluminium.

I never knew there would be actually paint that contains silver. Any applications and data about costing? I want reflective coating for solar cooker.

Rajesh

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 7:50 AM

Actually, I use silver paint a lot. Real paint (or ink), which is a colloidal suspension. It's expensive and a pain in the neck. It conducts really well the first short while, then falls off sharply with time.

I've also used a lot of metallic (aluminum, copper, ?) paints that were barely conductive.

I would never use paint to mount a component. In fact, I would never used somehing like e&c filled epoxy for a component. I have used the epoxy to move heat out of cryogenic coils and it requires a budget-busting cross section.

In short, go for solder.

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#12

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 9:49 AM

I worked in a reliability/failure analysis lab for many years. I can tell you that metal filled organic conductors saved me countless hours of failure analysis. Just locate the joint in a product made with that material and chances were very high that I found the source of the failure. So, if you want to simplify the job of the failure analyst, I encourage you to use your conductive compound and stay away from the more reliable solder.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 9:57 AM

I suspect that the majority of those failures were the result of misapplication of the products, and not product failure.

The OP is a perfect example.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/03/2010 2:30 PM

I suspect you are correct. The problem is that the people who sell these conductive materials try to convince all potential customers that their technology can solve problems and lower product cost without impacting reliability. Product engineers and their managers are often misled by these claims and test programs can fail to identify a reliability problem.

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#15

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/05/2010 4:59 AM

Silver paint is useful in some applications but is not strong enough to be loaded. If the LED being fitted by the OP has it's own mechanical fixing then silver paint or epoxy might be OK. My main concern is that the OP says 'high power' LED which suggests a high current device so a resistive connection could pose a problem.

We use silver epoxy to fit wires to platinum connections on optics which cannot be heated to more that 80°C & have found this to be very reliable if suitable care is taken in the application.

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#16

Re: Can silver conductive paint act as solder paste?...

07/05/2010 5:28 AM

Thanks everyone..all your suggestion and ideas are really useful..

My work is on thermal characteristic of Light Emitting Diodes (1W).

During the measurement I will increase the junction temperature slowly which can exceed 150C. So I think I can't take risk by using Silver conductive paint as the solder paste..

So I will go for the real solder paste...and even I manage to get a reflow oven for the mounting process...

Thanks for your kind support everyone.

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