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Locktite Application in Aviation

09/06/2010 4:03 AM

What is the limitations for usage of locktites (threadlockers) in aviation? Specifically, is it suitable to use locktites as a threadlocker for the fasteners of a seat (a seat which is attached to A/C with some interface devices using only 3 fasteners and locking of these fasteners is only by locktite). Thanks in advance for the comments.

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#1

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/06/2010 11:38 AM

If you have to ask us then you are not qualified to work on an aircraft. There is a lot more to aircraft safety than asking strangers on an open internet chat room.

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#2

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/06/2010 11:55 AM

No.

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Guru

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#3

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/06/2010 3:00 PM

Somewhere, depending on the type and age of the airframe is a procedure for this.

It MUST BE FOLLOWED.

You may need a qualified A&P mechanic for this.

I am not an aircraft owner, nor mechanic. I can't advise you.

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#4

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/06/2010 11:10 PM

Well, perhaps if you add some safety wire to the locktite......

Locktite is only suitable for non-critical items.

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#5

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 1:36 AM

Dear Guest,

I have never used Locktites in my design and I know some standarts like MIL-S-22473 (requirements and limitations in MS18069) for the usage but the company which sells the seats to us insists on using locktites as their general design publicy and they say that their seats are already being used by some other companies in aviation industry. I will be very appreciated if you give up replying with smart aleck answers.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 3:30 AM

"they say that their seats are already being used by some other companies in aviation industry."

Have you asked the company that sells you the seats to give you the names of some of the other companies in the aviation industry that are already using their seats?

Those other companies would be your best source of information as to the veracity of the seat manufacturer's claims.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 6:36 AM

If there is someone using these materials in production of seats for aviation already, then go to the local FSDO (flight Standards District Office) FAA, and consult with them. They will know if there has been an approval written for this process or a from 337 needs to be put into play. If you are a supplier to aviation then you should have a Maintenance officer or inspector, your familiar with at your local FSDO.

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#8

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 9:16 AM

Anyway i dont understand why you are scared use loctite while you should be scared by studs or fasteners use by same justice.Somebody know a better way to lock than Loctite or its equivalents?.-

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 10:15 AM

Yes I do. I use safety wire. Some call it lock wire. Comes in various gauges, and materials, normally forty thou inconel is more than enough for most mechanical applications, and 25 thou inconel is used for electrical plugs. There are standard engineering tables which will tell you what size and type of lockwire for the application you have for it. Stainless is often used for high heat applications around engines. I personally have never used lock-tight, but my experience on aircraft, although long, is pretty limited. Why would I be scared to use loctite? Well, if an item falls off, even a little nut, that nut will go rattling around inside the airplane seeking some way to get into trouble. That is why such nuts and bolts are tied down with lock wire.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/07/2010 10:21 PM

1)Loctite lets you fix your stud and tork it takes with it:Thats not possible with wires.

2)If you are worry it gets loose it is because you dont use Loctite:the wire just protect in case loose nut is a fact:dont happens with Loctite.

3)Loctites applies to so many differents sizes of bolts and nuts:I think only big sizes are at least commons with wires.

4)there are Loctites specified for differents bolts,studs fasteners/nuts sizes and differents strenghts too!!:Sometimes (after your choice) you need to heat it as the only way to release it!

Course there are,nuts with nylon or notched type like we see sometimes in some starter motors but if you are a genius from a bottle ready to respond my wish,i couldnt ask something better than Loctite or its equivalent.-

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/08/2010 6:41 AM

I have worked on many aircraft over the last 40 years. I have many hours as pilot in command. The FAA and the NTSB have many hours of testing failed materials. It would seem to me that all of that experience would add up to something. Take my advise and seek the guidance from your local FSDO office before venturing out into un-tested waters. Also you may wish to obtain a copy of AC43.13-1B and read the approved methods for aircraft repair and maintenance.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/08/2010 11:36 PM

All torques are "wet torques". That is, any bolt which is torqued down must be torqued with oil on the threads. Loctite is not a lubricant, it is a thread locker, and any torque measured on a nut which is relying on a thread locker for lubricant will be wrong. When you oil the threads, you interfere with the action of the loctite. Wrong torques lead to catastrophic failures. That is why I won't use it on anything I have to torque down.

Green loctite is supposed to be a "wicking" compound. It will wick into the threads only if there is no oil in there. If there is oil in the threads, the loctite will not wick in to do its job. You should only use it where torque is not critical.

Green and red glyptol is used to anchor screws in generators. No doubt such applications can be superceeded by loctite. If so, I have not seen any technical bulletins on the subject.

In a world where not every nut and bolt can be torqued down, loctite is a superb choice. But wire is better. Even if the bolt were to break, the pieces will be held in place. I have witnessed this myself on many occasions. Wire takes a long time to do, and in a world where time is money, loctite or its many imitators can make the job go a lot faster. (When I think of the thousands of man hours I spent spinning wire on cannon plugs during the years! Oh my!) Wire also provides an immediate visible indication that the plug has not backed off, and the nuts are where they are supposed to be....you get no such indication with loctite.

That is why wire is better.

Well, you asked!

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/09/2010 9:28 AM

What about the bend over tab washer, as used on motorcycle disc brakes bolts? & of course the classic castle nuts, drilled bolt combo?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/10/2010 12:11 PM

I have had those tabs break off, never the first time of course, but when they were bent up and down a few times. They are "supposed" to be replaced every time, but you have to find the right tabbed washer, which you never seem to have in your tool kit and never if you have to do a "field" repair. Castle nuts are excellent, however they require the correct length of bolt, correct alignment, and that might mean a little extra (possibly incorrect) torque to get the hole to line up with the machiolations, plus you get a cotter pin which you have to keep track of. My biggest distaste for cotter pins is that they seem to snag my clothing, my skin, and whatever else the little sharp little hooks want to grab onto. I have seen wire used with castle nuts, but that is not a good practice. But there is no doubt that cotter pins are secure, and if you wrap them tightly against the post, they should not snag too badly. But I remember a time when I had to put a fender washer under the nut to deal with an elongated hole, and that raised the nut so high that the drilled hole in the bolt was hidden down inside the nut.

You always a roll of lock wire in the bottom of your tool kit.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/10/2010 12:27 PM

I was wondering about the use of tabbed washers on aircraft

I forgot to mention spanner nuts, that are sometimes used with a tabbed washer, engaged on a slot on the shaft or bolt.

when it comes to reusing locking devices, it's frowned on to reuse lockwire too :(

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Locktite Application in Aviation

09/10/2010 2:43 PM

Absolutely. It is forbidden. However, you always have a spare roll of lockwire in your tool kit, but you don't necessarily have every tabbed washer you might need in your away kit!

Tabbed washers in slots with internal locking stars are common on aircraft. Particularly on switches and fuse holders. I have seen THOSE get loose too, but they are fairly easy to spot because the toggle gets wonky.

Also, it is really really difficult to lockwire electrical connectors...grin!

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