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Guru
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Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed Correctly?

10/04/2010 10:39 AM

Greetings All,

Is this LP gas line installed correctly? My LPG provider says yes, I am undecided. I have found mixed opinions on Google.

The line is copper buried to 30" below grade and was installed in 2008. My concern is the soil freeze/thaw cycling that is taking place along the line from at grade to 30" below grade at both ends.

I feel that over time the soil freeze/thaw cycling will fatigue the line resulting in failure. I question whether the line should have been installed in a sleeve (PVC? - Steel?) from 4" or so above grade down to 30" below grade (filled with pea gravel) where the line transitions from vertical to horizontal underground.

In retrospect, I wonder if this would create a larger problem as the water table where I am located is apparent as shallow as 18" below grade (depending on season and amount of precipitation).

In addition, shouldn't the regulator be located at the tank rather than at the house?

My biggest concern is if we get snowed in (happens at least once a year) and the gas line fails, we have the potential to be without heat/hot water/means of cooking for one or more days not mention the cost of repair and refilling the 275 gallon tank. At best this might only be a slight inconvenience but at worst this could be a major issue which I would rather avoid than test.

Here are pictures of tank side and house side connections:

Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks - KJK

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#1

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed correctly?

10/04/2010 4:17 PM

Here is a link to some basic information, the gist of which, stresses the involvement of the authority having jurisdiction.

http://www.propane101.com/index.htm

Hope this is of some help.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed correctly?

10/04/2010 4:58 PM

Unredundant,

Thanks for the link. That is one that I had not seen during my Google searches.

It did explain why the regulator is at the house rather than the tank.

As far as the service feeder, I have looked at some of my neighbor's installations and some have sleeves some don't, some have copper pipe and some have some type of plastic tubing (poly pipe?).

I am going to check with the AHJ which I assume will be the county inspector on this installation and see what he thinks.

Thanks again and GA for your help!

KJK

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#3
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Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed correctly?

10/04/2010 10:31 PM

Sleeve or not?

I only keep it practical. Local regulations can or cannot require it. No steel! Copper can be affected by chemicals inside your soil and can be pitted and perforated on the long term. I had a 3/8 red copper pipe buried for more than 30 years without problems. Where I live now copper lasts only 5 years in the ground. When your soil is moist and acid or base it can happen fast.

The regulator

In general your pressure in the pipe from the tank is higher than what you need behind the regulator.

For this reason:

When the regulator is closer to the user, you will experience less pressure drop and have more gas available and a more stable performance.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed correctly?

10/05/2010 9:03 AM

dvmdsc,

Thanks for the input. I had a feeling that the soil PH would have something to do with the rate of deterioration.

Thanks again - KJK

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#4

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed Correctly?

10/04/2010 11:00 PM

I would belive that the regulator being at the house would help during the cold weather to avoid the unstable condition that would occure when you begain using the LPG after an extended period of non use, being that you could have a denser gas ( due to extreame cold ). Yes there is an argement that could be made on this.

I have had copper to outlast the tank that it is connected to, but if you have the worry of failure keep a roll of the same size pipe on hand with spare fittings for each end. Most damage to copper lines are due to someone who has come in contact with them with a weedeater or other yard equipment.

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#6
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Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed Correctly?

10/05/2010 9:07 AM

hotwater,

As far as the regulator, yes, after more research and the answers here, I believe the regulator is better located at the house side.

Excellent idea of having spare tubing and fittings on hand. During freezing weather (when the ground is frozen), I could probably route the copper line above grade temporarily as the area between the tank and house is low/no traffic.

Thanks for your input - KJK

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#7

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed Correctly?

10/05/2010 12:58 PM

I have been involved with natural gas and Propane for over the last thirty years.

Your first source of information will be the gas code for your jurisdiction

The code that I use requires a minimum of 18" deep and protected from objects. I line the trench with crush stone screenings, lay the line and cover with more screenings, than back fill.

There is copper tubing that is approved for direct burial. It is usually grade K with a PVC jacket.

The regulator is an issue with me. My code states that the vent of the regulator shall be above to projected snow line. either it should be moved or a snorkel should run from the vent and up. If the regulator gets buried in snow than it may freeze and bad things will happen.

Most of the install I have dealt with use two regulators. One at the tank set at about 25 PSI and one at the house set at 18" WC. This allows greater capacity for the buried line, especially on long runs.

It looks like your tank is sitting just on the ground with out any foundations. Is this correct and does follow your local code?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Is this LPG Service Feeder Installed Correctly?

10/05/2010 1:33 PM

Icarus,

Hey thanks for the input. The tank is on small concrete footings, they are not visible in the photos though.

As far as the regulator, the one by the house does have the potential to be covered in snow, I will have to look into this further.

I had to do some hand digging this past summer for sidewalk installation and electric utility relocation. I exposed the copper line after VERY careful hand digging. It was surrounded by dirt only in this small area I uncovered so I can only assume the entire length was backfilled with dirt only. The copper line is not PVC covered.

Thanks again - KJK

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