Previous in Forum: Exhaust Thermocouple Logic in GE Gas Turbine   Next in Forum: Power Generation
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 186
Good Answers: 22

Pyrometer Behavior

10/16/2010 6:29 PM

Hello All,

I have a home-built gas-fired forge/heat-treating oven which has an analog pyrometer mounted to a piece of channel that is welded to the bottom of the oven, and connected to a K-type thermocouple mounted in the oven. The unit is mounted on stand-offs and is protected by a shroud covered with asbestos sheet.

When I first fire the burners, the indicated temperature quickly rises to 2300 deg. F. As the oven heats and time passes - maybe a half-hour - the indicated temperature starts to drop and gets down to around 1500 deg. F. Clearly, the internal oven temperature is not actually dropping, but it seems to me that there is some correlation between the rising ambient temperature around the pyrometer that is causing the apparent drop.

Does anyone know if this might be the likely cause. If so, I can remount the unit to the base leg and keep it from getting heated by the oven.

Thanks

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/16/2010 7:17 PM

are the wires reversed?

Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#2

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/16/2010 9:01 PM

1) The meter is heating up, reducing the difference between the hot end and the cold end temperatures, reducing the indicated temperature reading.

The EMF (millivolts) generated by a thermocouple is due to the temperature difference (the temperature gradient) between the hot end (in the furnace) and the cold end (at the meter).

When the furnace and the meter are both cold and the furnace heats up, the maximum millivoltage is generated because the difference between the hot furnace and the cold meter is the greatest.

As the meter heats up over time, that temperature difference diminishes, reducing the millivolt output and hence, the indicated temperature reading.

The thermocouple is NOT wired backwards, or the meter needle would drive downscale the hotter the temperature.

2) Analog meters of the era were frequently marked Cr/Al (abbreviation for Chromel / Alumel) on the dial face, to identify the type of thermocouple the meter was designed for.

Does your meter have a positive ID for the type thermocouple?

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 186
Good Answers: 22
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/17/2010 11:04 AM

Yes, it does have that designation on the face of the dial and I have the compatible thermocouple. Your explanation makes perfect sense and is exactly what I have observed.

I will relocate the pyrometer to a spot that does not permit it to gain heat from the oven.

Thanks for your input.

BTW, at first I did have the wires reversed, even though they were connected in accordance with the terminal ID's, which resulted in your described response.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#4

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/17/2010 12:23 PM

The USA color coding for thermocouples is, shall we say, different?

Red is negative, the other colored wire (Type K is yellow) is positive. If you're an automotive guy, it probably seems backwards.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 186
Good Answers: 22
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/17/2010 7:38 PM

Thanks, I guess some mechanical things must remain counterintuitive.

At the risk of sounding gauche, was a female involved in that choice somehow?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/17/2010 11:35 PM

Doogleass -- A thermocouple consists of two specially selected wires of different metal alloys that will produce a potential difference beween the two based on the particular alloy combination and the temperature difference between the hot junction and the cold junction. The hot junction is at the end of the thermocouple where you are measuring temperature. The cold junction is back in the meter where the sensing and recording circuitry is.

Now if the meter circuitry containing the cold junction heats up from being too close to the furnace then the temperature difference is going to be less. Hence the lower temperature reading. Note that substantial temperature rise in the meter can cause a host of other inaccuracies in the device since it was designed to work at normal ambient temperatures. So the meter may not have seen an actual 800 degree temperature rise. (which would likely be pretty rough on the wire insulation.) Hopefully you didn't actually hurt it.

Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
2
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#7

Re: Pyrometer Behavior

10/18/2010 8:30 AM

If you have type K wires running from the T/C junction to the instrument, your advice has been sound. If you are running T/C extension wires, you need to make sure the two extension joints are both at the same temperature. This rule also applies to the terminals at the measuring instrument.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Register to Reply 7 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Doogleass (2); Ed Weldon (1); Iris (2); welderman (1)

Previous in Forum: Exhaust Thermocouple Logic in GE Gas Turbine   Next in Forum: Power Generation

Advertisement