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Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 57

Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

04/10/2011 1:41 PM

How do I size coordinated circuit breaker, starterand power cable for motor having a high starting curent and long starting time such as the following motor:

A Squirrel Cage Induction Motor D.O.L starting, having 440 Volts, 90 KWs, FLC 150 Amp, LRC/FLC = 855%, Allowable Run Up Time (ART) at 80% Nominal Voltage is 44 Seconds and the locked Rotor Withstand Time (LRWT) at 80% Nominal Voltage is as follows: Warm 17 Sec. and Cold 50 sec. and considering the actual asymmetrical inrush current could be, according to NEMA manufacturers, as much as two times the LRC.?

Firstly, could you verify that the motor can operate normally in view of the above ART and LRWT values stated above?

Secondly, Can we use cable size, motor DOL starter and circuit breaker the same as if this motor has a starting performance as per NEMA MG1 letter 'G'? If not, why?

Detailed answer is appreciated ..

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Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 63
Good Answers: 7
#1

Re: Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

04/11/2011 4:52 AM

So long one is ready to spend money nothing is impossible; get a motor designed with primary mode forced hydrogen cooling and secondary mode water cooling coils to dissipate the heat for successful fulfillment of criteria laid in second paragraph of the post.

Asymmetric inrush current of the desired strength is fictitious since the impidance of the windings in a motor are theoretically balanced.

Since normal procedure is to cater abnormal conditions for a maximum of three seconds you have to select a cable in consideration of 50 seconds LRTW rather than FLA, same goes with the rest of the DOL elements which would be over sized but the back-up IDMT relay in the feeder panel will be depended on for protection.

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
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#2

Re: Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

04/11/2011 8:11 AM

FLC of Motor = 150Amps @ 440V

FLC of Motor = 120Amps @ 80% of Nominal Voltage

LRC @ 80% Vnom = 8.55 x 120 = 1026Amps.

Starting time @ 80% Vnom = 44 Sec.

Assuming that you have a conventional thermal overload relay in this DOL Feeder, set at 150Amps, then this starting current multiple for the relay would be 6.84 times. Probably a Class 30 Relay should help in your case. But, please check with the I-T Curves of the relay selected that the trip time of the relay is more than 44 sec. If not, you have to go for a comprehensive motor protection relay.

As far as the contactor goes, you must ensure that that the contcator selected can withstand this 1026 Amps for 44 seconds.

The contactor rating shall be morethan 215 Amps. Because, if you select a 150 Amps contactor, it would withstand 1026 Amps only for 21.37 seconds, whereas your starting time is 44 seconds.

Similar Short Time Withstand Calculations shall have to be done for the cable size too and the most optimum size arrived at.

You need not worry much about the asymmetrical inrush current as the duration would be very less (less than a few cycles). But just in case you are concerned, you can do similar sizing calculations for the asymmetrical currents too.

But, from what you have stated, I am more worried about what would happen during a hot-start of the motor. The Hot LRWT is only 17 sec. whereas your starting time is 44 sec. (assuming the voltage is only 80% of Vnom during the hot start).

Finally, for such long starting loads, you better consult the switchgear manufacturers for Co-ordination Charts, because most of standard selection charts are for normal starting duty motor loads (with acceleration times up to 10 seconds only)

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Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 57
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

05/06/2011 6:05 AM

The motor vendor tells us the motor starting time is one second although Allowable Run Up Time he has given are quite long

This gives me the impression that Starting time and ART are two different things which I am trying to figure out what the differance between them and how to coordinate both together and with the concerned overcurrent protection.

Appreciate ur comments if any

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

05/06/2011 6:50 AM

You see! When a motor manufacturer designs, manufactures & sells a motor to you, he does not know to what type of load you are going to couple it to. The starting time given by the motor vendor in the motor's data sheet is taking into account the moment of inertia of the motor only (this, for sure, the motor maufacturer would know). That is why this is normally very small, as an uncoupled motor can accelerate to its rated speed in quick time.

Whereas the Allowabls Run Up Time (ART) - takes due account of the moment of inertia of the coupled load too. And, that's why it will be more than the starting time of the motor alone - as some more weight (the coupled weight), the motor has to accelerate now.

And, when you set the overcurrent protection these should not matter. These parameters matter most in setting the Locked Rotor Element, the Stalling Protection Element, the prolonged start element ony. As for the motor over current protection goes, please make the current setting to the motor's rated full load current.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kolkata, West Bengal, India
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#3

Re: Motor With High Starting Current And Long Starting Time

04/13/2011 4:39 AM

Dear Candlez,

What is the load on the motor? comperssor, pump, fan etc. I think you are considering direct coupling of load with motor shaft. Selection of Electrical accessories viz. contactor, O/L relay, Switchgear, cable etc. is already discussed. Alternatively, for high inertia load you may think of use of fluid coupling instead of solid /direct coupling. In that case motor will be started in no- load condition till it attains rated speed. In this case the starting time will be drastically reduced and solve your problem. Please remember while selecting fluid coupling the speed-torque characteristic of motor must be matched with that of fluid coupling.

Manindra.

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Users who posted comments:

A.A.Khi (1); Candlez (1); electricalexpert65 (2); manindra (1)

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