Previous in Forum: Transformer OLTC   Next in Forum: Selection of Stepper Motor
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25

Transformer Impedance

04/29/2011 5:49 AM

Dear All,

how does the % impedance of transformer vary with variation in the voltage of the transformer and How are kVAr losses of transformers affected by it

Thanks in advance

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: transformers
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Construction Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BH, Vietnam
Posts: 435
Good Answers: 1
#1

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/29/2011 9:44 AM

Percent of impedance of a transformer means that, the maximum operation current will flow in the secondary winding if the secondary side is shorted circuited line to line while the primary voltage is raised from 0V to a point which is then compared to secondary voltage. Let's say 5% of 400V. It means 20V.

Therefore, the impedance is directly proportional with the transformer's secondary voltage.

__________________
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#2

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/29/2011 2:28 PM

Your question is ambiguous. When you say "% impedance" are you trying to solve a problem in power system analysis using the "per unit" system? If so then you need to know the base KV and KVA of the system and the transformer. If you're unsure what that means then maybe you want to know if the impedance of a transformer varies with voltage, short answer- not when it is operated within its ratings, it is a function of the physical configuration of the windings, laminations, etc. KVAR losses will vary slightly with terminal voltage within specs, but not enough to affect most calculations. If this is a "theoretical"; i.e., homework, question then consult any handbook on transformers, we don't do homework here.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston, USA
Posts: 946
Good Answers: 244
#3

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/29/2011 10:56 PM

How does the % impedance of transformer vary with variation in the voltage of the transformer?

For a transformer, the voltage ratings and the % impedance are fixed values and they are determined during the design of the transformer. In this sense this question is invalid. However, I am guessing your question is about the factors that affect the % impedance during the design. The % impedance value depend on various factors, such as the number of windings, number of phase, high and low voltage ratings, transformer KVA rating, and the insulation medium and cooling system etc. Though the impedance values increase with higher voltage and KVA ratings of the transformer, the % impedance value doesn't, because it is expressed in per unit of the base value of transformer ratings.

How are KVAR losses of transformers affected by it?

The KVAR loss (approximate value) of the transformer at full load is the KVA rating of the transformer multiplied by the per unit impedance reactance value. For example, the KVAR loss of a 750 KVA, 5.5% impedance transformer at full load is 750 x 0.055 = 41.25 KVAR.

This thread also may help:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/41265/Impedance-Voltage-for-a-Transformer

- MS

__________________
"All my technical advices in this forum must be consulted with and approved by a local registered professional engineer before implementation" - Mohammed Samad (Linkedin Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/msamad)
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/30/2011 12:49 AM

Thanks for the reply.

actually i am doing transformer kVAr loss compensation study where we want to know the variation in kVAr loss with +/-10% voltage variation of the transformer

Thank in advance

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/30/2011 5:51 PM

You have not made it clear the situation

  1. Transformer on fixed tap, ingoing voltage change +/- 10% OR
  2. Transformer taps automatically changing to accommodate +/- 10% change of ingoing voltage. OR
  3. If voltage variation is at input or output of transformer (by output loading change).
  4. The size of the secondary load and its daily and seasonal variations. Also Ambient temperature, insolation, windspeed variations which affect oil temperature and winding temperature.
  5. The pattern of voltage variations coincident with the daily/seasonal load and climate variations.

I suggest you need tests on a representative transformer (in service), leading to a validated theoretical model of the transformer losses. You then apply the nominal voltage, load and climate variations etc to the theoretical model, using the chosen pattern of ambient variations.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Transformer Impedance

04/30/2011 6:05 PM

Apologies, you wrote kVAr losses, so I²r losses will have an effect on KVAr which is negligible, but the remarks about real voltage and load variation patterns are relevant, since I am sure there is a cost benefit factor in your study.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Construction Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BH, Vietnam
Posts: 435
Good Answers: 1
#11
In reply to #3

Re: Transformer Impedance

05/07/2011 3:00 AM

Msamad,

"For a transformer, the voltage ratings and the % impedance are fixed values...".

For transformers which have OLTC, during the design stage, we will also take it for grant?

__________________
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#7

Re: Transformer Impedance

05/01/2011 12:18 AM

I think we're getting a clearer picture of the goal of the study. It sounds like you are trying to select a standard design for a distribution transformer that is going to be installed in multiple locations, or a few very large transformers such as Generator Step Up (GSU). In either case the term "KVAr losses" can cause confusion because KVArs are lossless except for the I**2 R losses that they cause by the flow of the current through the windings as a result of the cyclical magnetizing/demagnetizing of the core, eddy current flow in the laminations, internal support structures, tank, etc., all of which show up as heat and noise from the unloaded transformer. The seasonality effects of environmental temperature are negligible since the resistivity change of the materials varies so little under these conditions (we're not concerned with the external temperature since that only affects the dissipation rate of the energy which in turn determines the temperature rise of the transformer). However the no load kW loss, which does have a fuel cost associated with it, varies according to the square of the voltage, from 0.9 squared to 1.1 squared or from 81% to 121% of the no load loss at the rated/nominal voltage. Now go apply that to your diurnal/seasonal voltage profiles and integrate the cost over a year. Isn't the per unit system handy?!

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25
#8

Re: Transformer Impedance

05/01/2011 4:27 AM

thanks for the replies, the transformer under study is having off circuit tap changer on HV side. The voltage variation is on the LV side (0.69/33 kV used for wind turbine generators).

thanks in advance

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Transformer Impedance

05/01/2011 3:44 PM

Vinodk - If your interest is just in the effect of secondary variations in load current, the equivalent circuit of the transformer is just an inductor in series with a resistor, driven by a voltage source equal to the zero-load secondary voltage. The values can be got from the transformer secondary short circuit test results, which give the transformer impedance and load current dependent losses. If it is significant, you can add the HV side impedance, transformed to the LV side.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#10

Re: Transformer Impedance

05/02/2011 6:26 AM

I have been kicked 4 times for being "off-topic", but there were two original questions :-

  1. How does % impedance vary with transformer voltage? Since it has been stated by vinodk in #8 that the service is wind generation from 0.69 up to 33 kV, it is clear "variation of impedance with design voltage" is not the issue. Also it is clear from posts, that for a given transformer, the variation in series impedance is negligible.
  2. How are kVAr losses affected by % impedance and variation of voltage?

For the second question, one has to address what "kVAr losses" means. In AC power systems, generation of lagging VArs is usually considered + and good (because all the essential transformers and motors draw lagging current which must be supplied). There are two "losses" of lagging kVar in the transformer, first, the lagging magnetising current (which will be proportional to voltage). Secondly, the series impedance (mostly inductive reactance), which will make the lagging power factor worse. If one is using induction generators, the whole generator/transfo system is a "kVAr loss". The actual amount under varying voltage/wind conditions will need an equivalent circuit for the system, transformer and machine and my post #9 was intended to help with this

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

67model (4); hien.nguyenquoc (2); msamad (1); RAMConsult (2); vinodk (2)

Previous in Forum: Transformer OLTC   Next in Forum: Selection of Stepper Motor

Advertisement