Define Current

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Electric current - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conducting materials are pool of electrons free to move with magnetic flux linkage.In AC the electrons are oscilating along the route,by reversing polarity of magnetic field.

Electronic Direct Current Flows in one direction. From where are upto where are not.

AC. electronic current flows from one side to the other. ALTERNATIVELY.

Electronic current means a flow of electrons.

Yes, under certain conditions the electrons vibrate.

YGTBFKM.

You've got to be...........................kidding me.

Thta's about the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time.

If you really want to get down to the fundamentals, read Tesla, and study also the two-slit quantum experiment.

Electrons are only a factor in a circuit where the potential (Voltage) is being discharged (loaded). For instance, in a lightning strike, the current appears as the lightning, but what is ocurring is that the potential is being discharged. (Tesla).

In a High Frequency, High Voltage circuit, there is some current or electron flow. This is a minor loading of the circuit internally, but the discharge that this loading represents is very small. And because the distances are short, (high frequency, short wavelength) the electrons do not appear to be moving.

The movement comes when the circuit is loaded, such as putting a motor or heating element, or a short. THEN the electrons appear! But the potential falls at the same moment. (Tesla).

In the two slit experiment, it gets even weirder, though it is in fact the same rule. The electrons in this experiment show up as a "discharge" when the experimenter looks for them. The potentials, until that moment, remain only waves of potential, and the "current" in the system is only electo-magnetic waves, not electrons! The experimenter, by looking, discharges the potentials and colapses the wave-form into an electron.

We understood the water analogy. Flow of electrons is similar to the flow of water in a pipe, electrons are displaced from one atom to the next. The flow in gallons per sec is constant around a water circuit unless water is removed or added, similarly the net electron flow in electrons per sec or coulombs per sec, i.e. amps is constant around a circuit.

At 50 Hz a "net electron" could be considered to move around the generator, substation, household circuit and back again a million times in one half cycle, there's no question of ac current being vibration at the atom.

To control a force like electricity, you have to be able to understand how it behaves. In most cases, it really does not truly matter how it works, just how it behaves. To say it behaves "like it was current in a hose pipe" is simply a way to describe a very complex quantum physics experiment using words that most people can understand.

True understanding of quantum effects is not required to know that if you stick your knife into the wall socket that you will draw sparks.

So we use "current" when of course there is really no current, and"voltage" when of course, there is only potential gradients and we use words like "electrons" when of course, there are really no such thing as electrons, just little packets of tightly rotating magnetic fields, or possibly more important, the lack of them where they should be.

You do not become a better electrician by learning quantum physics. But in the long term, it certainly won't hurt!

(I was going to go on and on as I usually do, but I think this has answered the Abdul's question of "why we define current as flow of electron while it is understood that in AC electrons just vibrate not flow".)

You are right about quantum physics not helping much with getting zapped! But still, understanding the fundamental rules does help to know how you got zapped. Tesla learned all about discharge when his resonant coils blew up. But what he noticed was that the "current" was insignificant until the discharge, and so the breakdown voltage of his insulation was much less than the voltages his coils were obtaining. MOST of the energy of his coils was in fact magnetic, until discharge, when the magnetic moments became current flow. Until then, the coils had much more potential than they should if electrons were really there and moving.

Still, it's the discharge that transfers the power. It's the current that is the result of that discharge, and it's the relationship between the potential to move the electrons, and the electrons movement that represents the power in the circuit. Power = Volts * Amps still applies especially at low frequencies and DC.

Agreed. Tesla really DID like his resonant circuits!

The reality of electricity is really different from the usual model. Years and years of electricans have sworn that there is current flow in a short circuit. I am one of them! I mean, even the unit "I" stands for "Intensity of Current". I used to believe that you could push electrons down a wire by shoving them with a magnet, and could prove it with a handful of wire and a bar magnet. The reality is quite different...electrons, if they exist, don't flow very fast, they sort of drift...centimeters a minute or so last I checked. Their effects move much faster. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I first discovered that there was another model!

The usual model states that wires are not sensitive to extremes of voltage, insulation is VERY sensitive to voltage but really does not care about current, and if you don't use a big enough wire to carry the "current" it will get too hot. The model works, you can get your head around it easily, you can build tables of gauge sizes and current flow which will work just fine.

I would advocate learning the simple "I squared R model" before getting into the nuclear physics of it. (That is the advice I would give to the OP, I suspect you have already done so!) But you never "need" to know more than the model to be a good electrician, or to be able to sign off on an engineering schematic. In a busy world with lots to do, the model is perfectly adequate to wire a plant, or a house, or a factory. Leave the physics to the people who design solar collectors and flourescent tubes.

I agree with you on the basics and the simple model when learning. I guess what gets to me is the classes never come back to the really interesting and mind blowing realities of resonance circuits and Tesla coil operation, construction and phenomenon!

The only time in my electronics education where resonant circuits, like tank circuits was covered was about a week spent on filters. Why the tank raises the voltage over unity was never covered.

And high frequency physics is only taught when you get into microwave or radio. And antenna design and theory is almost left entirely up to the Hams!

The quantum physics stuff is actually quite easy once you get used to it, and it helps define the true nature of the phenomenon, even the basic models. When I'm teaching, even elementary school kids, I give the whole picture and then let them sort it out and ask questions. Seems to work pretty well for some, and others simply haven't the aptitude for physics. That's ok too. Fall back to the simple model and they won't zap themselves too much! "One hand in pocky, no get shocky!" for them, and the two slit experiment for the budding physicists!

' that in AC electrons just vibrate not flow' Who said that this is what is generally understood?

There is always a flow whether DC or AC. In AC the flow direction changes according to the frequency of the voltage change. But definitely there is a flow otherwise ther is no power transfer or production. Specially when looking at the 50 or 60Hz AC .

Even at higher frequencies, the same thing happens.

Let us remain in this low frequency otherwise the process will need more details and science...

This is going to get philosophical, with considerations of time and space. I think analogy with water flow covers it for me whether backwards and forwards or in one direction.

Because its easier to understand if you think of it as a linear flow?

Its not where the electrons end up that determines how much power can be transmitted or produced. Its the fact that electrons move, that creats the "Energy" or in other words produces the output (wether they move in one direction or if they move forwards & backwards).

A bit like comparing the pedalling action of a bicycle, to that of a kids Pedal Car.

The bicycle pedale move forwards in a circular motion, in the one direction, all the time, to produce power to drive the bicycle forwards..

The pedals on the pedal car move forwards and backwards, but still produce power to drive the vehicle.

Hope this helps your understanding of the concept.

Exactly. You can transfer mechanical energy by pulling on a rope either continuously in a loop or by pulling a swing backwards and forwards. Either way you will get tired, you are doing work, energy is being transferred.

Do a search on hole flow theory.

We can only get some understanding by analogies, similarities with something we know. No one knows what an electron is, and it certainly doesn't have a negative sign on it. No one knows why whatever it is is spinning and attracted to a nucleus of other "particles".

I've done it all, holes & all, PN junctions, electromagnetic waves going through space, magnetism, gravity & Newtons Laws. Each bit a mystery..How can anything attract something else when there's nothing in between? How can the moon be attracted to the earth, we can say it but we don't know why.

We can only watch and wonder, and even the watching and wondering is a big mystery. Stick with the water flow analogy for electric current, do your job and take the money, and be happy.

The attraction is the collapse of the function that creates the space/time. If there is no conscious will to do otherwise(maintain the space/time), the default is attraction and collapse back into One. Gravity is the default when Consciousness no longer chooses to see a space between.

It's not that there is nothing there, it is that it's form is that of space/time, and mass.

Falling is easy. Just do nothing.

Rising is difficult. You must exert a great amount of will and intent to see rising.

To see anything you want, you must rise to the occasion to see. Raise the potential, and exercise your will. Even to see a single electron!

Not seeing is difficult. Seeing is easy. Even a proton can see.

In the two-slit experiment, what does the electron see? Can it see it's creator? Do you see yours?

There really isn't space to get into it, but it relates back to fields and charge, etc. In short, it has to do with electrodynamic fields and you will have to learn Maxwell's equations if you want to understand them. The electron movement analogy is false as the electrons are displaced as a result of the fields (reaction, not action). In college we did indeed prove this with quantum mechanics and the weight of electrons - the number of electrons moving contain nowhere near as much energy as the moving fields.

Maxwells equations with all those partial differential equations, all works out nicely mathematically but doesn't tell us what a magnetic or electrical field is. There's a "field" in this vacuum, a field of what? stressed ether? A line of force going from north to south, just words, there's no north and south, just things moving relative to each other with something pulling or pushing, but we don't know what it is or why it's happening.

Yes, that is true in the context of material based causal science. There is no "material" that can be seen as the source of the field itself.

What IS there is the space and the time. It is the relationship between the space itself, the distance between possibilities, that is a possibility in itself.

Space and Mass define possibility. Time defines probability within that space and between the two masses. "Fields" are the potential to interact that are formed from the combination of Mass, Space, and Time. It is the creation of the potential for interaction.

Interaction is a function of Consciousness, and Consciousness is the source of the space, the mass, and the time.

The Observer sees the Observed that he chooses to see. This raises the potential and collapses the wave-form of potential objects to the one and only best possibility for an Observed object within the conditions of that space, time and Observer.

You cannot define fields or particles without including the role of the Observer. When you do, you leave material/causal science, and enter into Quantum mechanics and spirituality. Welcome to the edge of understanding! It's right in front of you the whole time you are wondering about it!

Ponder this:

All particles are unique in their detail and similar in general.

All particles are internally complex.

All Objects are within a space and their positions are absolute, and unique, but only when they are observed.

The space is relative between objects. There must be at least two for there to be a space, a time, and an interaction.

The distance between objects is a creation of both a space, and a time to interact, or the objects can have NO relation.

The time gives a potential to interact over the distance.

Without the creation of the space, and the time, the two objects are one object.

All interactions are the act of Consciousness. When there is no will to see, no thing exist to see. Seeing is creating.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure." - even for electrons! (two-slit experiment)

Deefburger, wow, and we just started discussing electric current!

I'm out at the quantum physics level, and I have great admiration and respect for those still struggling with the latest developments. The only bits I can relate to are " Consciousness is the source of the space, the mass, and the time." , "quantum mechanics and spirituality" and of course "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure."

Easy to state and repeat these things, the big problem I have is why so few are able to come anywhere near to an understanding of true spirituality.

Because the reality is so weird! The truth is hard to grasp. We are connected totally to everything, yet we appear to be separate.

That is a very difficult thing to resolve! Distance appears to be absolutely, measurably there, yet, when there is a discharge of energy the distance is less than it appears to be. The electrons in a vacuum tube don't see the distance from the cathode to the anode. For them, the two places are the same place, different potential. It is only the physicist that sees the distance and path taken by the electrons in the tube. Remember, that the electrons MOVE at near the speed of light. So the passage of time for them, in motion, is near 0. Because of this, their experience of the distance is also near 0!!

And how do we talk of electric current without also talking about magnetic moments? That is the other half of the picture that is very rarely discussed.

Oh dear...

I feel that I have disturbed a sleeping monster....

Perhaps it's better sleeping. Most theories stay as theories until new "discoveries" show the errors.

For most of us time is linear, space is fixed and can be measured, and less than 1 micron is a mystery, in the sense that our personal intelligence cannot grasp the ideas. At the same time we have to admit that a chosen few have some kind of gift to understand a bit more than the rest of us. But infinite knowledge, infinite time and space, bit beyond me.