Previous in Forum: Electrical Powor Distribution   Next in Forum: Diesel Generators
Close
Close
Close
12 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143

Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 7:09 PM

Does anyone have a clever way of explaining why we worry about the outer foil on a film cap? The other day, someone asked me about the band on an orange drop. I showed him the difference when I hooked it across a scope probe both ways, but I couldn't think of any coherent explanation for why you get that shielding.

I'm not sure if I'm getting dumber or the questions are getting harder.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#1

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 8:12 PM

Outer cap foil surface can pose as an EMI antenna or as a shield depending on if that pole corresponds more to 'damped' side of the circuit (that could cause problems, as frequencies go up), or more to signal ground. Is that's what you refer to? S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 9:38 PM

But, how do I explain that in simple words? I have a hard enough time explaining capacitance. I know how to hook them up, but can't tell you why that does what it does.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 9:57 PM

Some things you just have to take on faith, baby.

I remember Pythagoras once said that once.

I have found that, "just because" sometimes satisfies them for awhile.

But the bright ones always come back.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 10:59 PM

I'm not into teaching (done it for a while in military tech environment) but my idea is that method of thinking is the final goal and not trying to explain every bit of information. Now depending on your audience 'simple words' can get different meanings and task isn't always that easy. Even the simplest project, if you try to exhaust it, you'll have to go to low level details, and even those require some audience background and so on. But you do have to stop somewhere. S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/08/2011 8:12 PM

If you had rotated it axially when you changed the probes It would have looked the same.

Don't worry, be happy.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#6

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/09/2011 6:48 AM

So, is it just the outer layer that gives the difference? That I could explain.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#7

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/09/2011 1:29 PM

Well, there's no fool like an educated fool. I've known about capacitors stripes for most of fifty years now. I've read about it in books, I'm been told in classes, and I've seen it when I've experimented. IT AIN"T REAL!

After I questioned how to really explain it, I started doing some research online. The old Sprague archives have been opened and, lo and behold, there's a tech note from an engineer that the stripe was merely an artifact that they used in production and it had nothing to do with the outer foil. In fact, the note says, most of the orange drop caps' outer foils can't even be identified by testing.

So, what did I see? They call it confirmation bias. Since I believed in the effect, I tended to look only at data that supported my belief and ignore data that didn't. Turns out this myth did me no harm, but what other myths do I believe in?

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/09/2011 1:33 PM

Has anybody given you the real scoop on Santa, yet?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/09/2011 1:47 PM

Don't tell me about that old coot,

For years he's given me nothing but WorldCom stock and John Edwards bumper stickers.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#11
In reply to #7

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/10/2011 7:31 AM

KrisDel enterprises produce high end consumer goods?

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 120
#10

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/09/2011 11:20 PM

In RFI propagation, a faraday shield acts as a limiter. The outer foil is the grounded one - in most cases a capacitor is an RF bypass to ground, to prevent feedback etc..

If it is a DC blocker to allow Ac signal to pass, it matters less because the connecting wires radiate, damped only by their matched impedance. The capacitance of the capacitor determines the pass band for stage to stage signal transmission

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1758
Good Answers: 6
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Outer Foil on Film Cap

08/11/2011 12:22 AM

Yes.

And the outer foil is connected to ground.

Not only in capacitors but also the outer layer in transformers for signals circuits is used to be connected to ground.

Example is in signal transformers and single phase rectifiers outer-layerof secondary is connected to ground for the purpose.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 12 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

aurizon (1); Haajee (1); JIMRAT (1); lyn (3); SimpleMind (2); TVP45 (4)

Previous in Forum: Electrical Powor Distribution   Next in Forum: Diesel Generators

Advertisement