Previous in Forum: UPS Supply and Raw Power   Next in Forum: Power Supply Interference (AVR)
Close
Close
Close
6 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kolkata, India
Posts: 447

4500kW 13.8kV Motor DOL Starting

10/13/2011 8:48 AM

Dear Learned friends,

I am trying to start a 4500kW 13.8kV motor Direct Online. The motor is connected at 13.8kV Switchgear bus which is supplied by a 69/13.8kV 40MVA transformer. The 13.8kV switchgear feeds 12MVA 13.8kV loads and other 4.16, 0.48 loads at the down stream totalling 25MVA loads. I want to maintain max 10% voltage drop at 4.16kV & 0.48kV buses during DOL starting of the motor. Will the motor be started DOL with the voltage dorp limit criteria. In case no, will adding capacitor at motor terminal during starting will help to maintaining voltage drop. Also will the %age impedance change at 40MVA transformer will also help. I have tried with ETAP static & Dynamic model. But the voltage at 4.16 & 0.48kV downstream swgr is coming below 90%.

__________________
BNDas
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
3
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#1

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV motor Dol starting

10/13/2011 9:11 AM

"I have tried with ETAP static & Dynamic model. But the voltage at 4.16 & 0.48kV downstream swgr is coming below 90%."

So you didn't like the answeres that this very capable software tool provided, therefore you are fishing for an answer you will like better from a group of volunteer unpaid anonymous engineers with nothing to lose? I have trusted ETAP and SKM Power Tools time and time again for things like this, I have never seen them steer me wrong. Maybe it's time for you to face the music and accept that you cannot meet your needs with a DOL start.

Capacitor assisted starting is not a good solution, it is only going to work if you have a VERY short non-variable acceleration time and a much more complex switching arrangment than most people realize. You MUST switch the capacitors in and out of the circuit, which means another contactor and fuses for the caps. Then it is critical that you switch the caps OUT of the motor circuit at 90% speed, otherwise you over-correct and your bus voltage spikes and causes damage elsewhere. So that means some sort of speed monitor system. It seems cheap on the surface, but by the time you do it right, it is about the same cost as Star-Delta starting and even more dangerous. One wrong move and you staert damaging equipment very quickly.

My preferred starting method at 13.8kV would be a Reactor Starter or Autotrnasformer starter. Simple, effective, safe and works on any motor. Star-Delta is way too dangerous even for LV motors and at MV I have seen shafts twisted off from transition spikes. Solid State Soft Starters, whcih I like at voltages up to 4160V, is still somewhat problematic at 13.8kV. About the only ones I would trust at that voltage are Solcon and Allen Bradley. The others who say they have them are still using their customers as beta testing sistes, they haven't sold enough of them to have a stable design.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 139
Good Answers: 6
#3
In reply to #1

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV motor Dol starting

10/13/2011 10:46 PM

Are you trying to start this motor without a proper starter?
Are you out of your mind?

The starting current will trip a lot of overload/overcurrent relays . . .

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kolkata, India
Posts: 447
#5
In reply to #1

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV motor Dol starting

10/14/2011 2:58 AM

Dear Respected Gurus/friends

I mentioned the name of the software to ensure that I used a widely popular and valid means of calculation than doing my own spread sheet. I do have ans of the Q, but placed in the forum as a topic of discussion, where people write to share knowledge. There is no question of payment for reciprocating knowledge what I understand. I am a quite old communicator(as well as age and experience) in this forum and wrote many replies to share my experience and views and never wrote any words of payment etc. I understand its voluntary in the forum to write.

Ok, now coming to the topic, The auto transformer, reactor are the options. I got a good reply like to check the inertia of load, motor, coupling. Yes, we can use hydrolic couplings to enhance the accleration situation. This option can be thought of. The last resort is soft starter, is known to everyone.

Using capacitor during starting will not enhance the voltage drop situation also it will unnecessary increase the complication of the circuitry as correctly said.

Thanks to all for the time and replies.

__________________
BNDas
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 26
Good Answers: 1
#2

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV Motor DOL Starting

10/13/2011 12:46 PM

4.5 MW motor started in DOL mode ? Has it any time started before ?

My humble opinion is , it would never .... without affecting the bus .

Best is to start with an Auto transformer , at the right speed pick up , bring in the DOL switchgear in line. The autotransformer does it job only at the time of start and is totally maintenance free static unit . But you may need additional two switchgear units - one to put Autotransformer in line and another to make its windings ' STAR ' . This is only at the time of starting .

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1753
Good Answers: 59
#4

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV Motor DOL Starting

10/13/2011 11:50 PM

Can I assume, that the mechanical load with its unspecified inertia, and braking load is not connected during this startup? I see it not even mentioned. Curious, or I miss something. Current drawn and voltage dip should be heavily dependent on it.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 729
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: 4500kW 13.8kV Motor DOL Starting

10/19/2011 9:42 AM

what is the load? capacitors won't help.You have to size the transformer so that drop is within limits.Such a large motor needs a study of load Torque curve superposed on motor torque vs speed curve.Normally most motors can accelerate a load to rated speed with 80% of the rated voltage at motor terminals for soft load like a centrifugal pump.large inertia drives mandate a detailed study.What is the rated speed, method of coupling the motor etc need to be informed to suggest a suitable solution.Pl see similar threads in this forum.

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 6 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

biswanath.das (1); JRaef (1); leveles (1); nesubra (1); olehwi (1); Voltamps (1)

Previous in Forum: UPS Supply and Raw Power   Next in Forum: Power Supply Interference (AVR)

Advertisement