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Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 6:40 PM

I looked at a Nissan LEAF. My question is about the size of generator I would have to build. It got a 80 kW AC synchronous, electric motor, 24 kWh lithium-ion battery, range only 100 miles, it got a 3.3 kW onboard charger, portable trickle charge cable (120 V EVSE), quick charge port (400+ V DC) does that mean 400 Volt DC generator would keep it full charge all the time. So a small 1000 watt gen powered 2 hp elect. motor, the elect. motor powers the generator, the generator powers the the charger & elect. motor. when charged motor shuts down, when needs charged Battery pack will spin motor till generator take over. Now what size relays will it need and regulators to turn on and off ???

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#1

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 7:40 PM

You just plug it in to charge it....of course you have to have a charging dock hooked up...Unless you're livin' out in the woods, then the Leaf may not be the best choice...

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging#/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 9:37 PM

The USA have a version of the UK's Top Gear TV program. They did a feature on the Leaf, quite funny when the presenter says he's got enough charge for17 miles, he then checks the sat-nav which informs him the nearest public charging station was 70 miles away.

I now know there's no point in posting the BBC I-Player link as for some reason it's not available to you.

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#3
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 10:01 PM

Yes the British version is available here, I watch it all the time...luv it....hate the american version, but it's still early....I saw the episode your talking about, they are hilarious...I think soon these charging stations are going to be everywhere...

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 10:31 PM

The USA have a version of the UK's Top Gear TV program.

Is it as bad as the cringeworthy Australian version?

Seriously, they just tried to copy the presenters right down to their look and personal interests. It just came off as, well bad enough that you would be better off watching Top Gear reruns.

<cringe>

Notice I do not call UK Top Gear 'UK Top Gear', as far as I am concerned there is ONLY one Top Gear!

What was the original question again?

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#6
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/16/2011 12:11 AM

OMG it's the same thing in the US version...Bloody awful mate...

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#12
In reply to #2

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:23 AM

Try looking at utub a number motors turning generators all work, as long as the

generator puts out more power then the motor needs. the extra power for what

ever needed.

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#11
In reply to #1

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:08 AM

Yes we know that! The point of a generator is that you never have to plug it in.

you can drive across the country and never have to charge it.

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#5

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/15/2011 10:35 PM

Best to plug it in to an outlet and charge it. If you have to lug a petrol-powered generator around you are missing the point and wasting a lot of money and creating more pollution than a comparable car running on petrol alone.

If you REALLY have to, then check the charge current requirements for the standard home charger and match that up to a generator (1kW sounds too small to me).

If you want to charge up on the move using an alternator connected to the vehicle's electric motor to charge up the batteries this won't work (see previous threads on CR4 regarding electric vehicles, overunity systems and basic electric generator theory).

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#28
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 11:49 PM

No not the Car motor! The generator will have its own elect. motor! and yes it will

work it has been tested. you may be right that it may be to small!

So much for the generator theory!

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/18/2011 12:14 AM

no larry

but most if not all AC drive electric vehicles have regenerative braking which improves battery range by 12 - 35 % depending on how many hills and how many stop starts you have .

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#7

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/16/2011 7:15 AM

Am I mis-reading this?

Where's the gas motor to run the generator?

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#13
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:43 AM

You did know there was 3 patients on this in the 1940s. Yes elect. motor turn a

generator and the generator run the motor.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:48 AM

"3 patients" Inmates at a mental asylum?

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#15
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 4:06 AM

Poor, poor Larry. Larry it just doesn't work that way.

Ask yourself why there aren't a bazillion "self powered" vehicles out there right now.

You tubes are childishly simple to FAKE!

Having a patent only means that the idea is unique, not that it works.

Give up!

Perpetual motion isn't.

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#8

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/16/2011 8:59 AM

"So a small 1000 watt gen powered 2 hp elect. motor, the elect. motor powers the generator, the generator powers the the charger & elect. motor. when charged motor shuts down, when needs charged Battery pack will spin motor till generator take over."

I wonder if he's the right man for the job.

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#24
In reply to #8

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 4:21 PM

i had wondered about a small generator inbuilt into an electric car , it would run only as back up when you park somewhere that has no plug in recharge points.

just not really sure if its worth it considering the risk that people may try to run it in an underground parking garage and cause toxic fume hazards , plus the risk factor of having an unattended fire hazard

these days many shopping malls have EV recharge points anyway

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#9

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/16/2011 10:06 AM

Wait, are you thinking you can make this thing into a perpetual motion machine by having the car power thar generator to power the car? LOLOLOLOLOL!

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/16/2011 11:09 AM

Well it must work otherwise why would there be hundreds of videos on U-tube that show it working, its a conspiracy I tell you!

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#16
In reply to #10

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 5:09 AM

I must say this generator is small for the electric car. My next project is a lot bigger

I have drawen plans to build a houseboat 16' wide x 66' long, to power everything

on it, I will need 2- 3,300 watt generators 110 volts and 2- 5 hp elect. motors 220

volts. By taking 110 volt from ea. generator it would give ea. motor 220 volts witch

gives more power and use less power to run it. So the total unit 220 volts turn out

6,600 watts. It will have 2- 12 volt starter motors/16 amp DC Alternator to spin

start the generators.

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#17
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 8:26 AM

Why not just give your money to charity?

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#32
In reply to #16

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/19/2011 1:47 PM

You don't have a clue about basic electrical and mechanical power or working principals do you?

First off you cant just wire two 110 AC generators in series and get double the voltage unless you have a way of perfectly synchronizing the shafts together otherwise you will get a useless stumbling waveform that slowly varies between 0 and 220 volts.

Second two five hp electric motors with typical 85% running efficiency will take about

8800 watts to run which is already well past what your pair of 3300 watt generators put out as is. Also don't forget that electric motors have a high inrush power requirements while they are getting up to speed which can easily be 4 - 6 times their running power. No way in hell will two 3300 watt generators provide 35,000 to 53,000 watts of power the pair of motors would need to start at the same time or the 17,500 to 26,500 watt it takes just for one to get started.

From personal experiance, I have an old 10,000 watt military gen set with a 20,000 watt surge rating and it can just barely start my 5 Hp air compressor despite having a 4 cylinder 35+ hp engine powering it.

Lastly the generators themselves are at best about 85% electrically efficient which means they need a mechanical energy input of around 3900 watts or 5.3 Hp minimum to work at full output and considerably more if they have any surge capacity ratings at all.

If you can build such a system and prove it works feel free to post the full blueprints and schematics here for review along with videos and opportunities for any of us to inspect your design in person. Trust me if you do that there are a number of us here who will happily bring you a million dollars in cash each for your efforts.

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#18

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 11:45 AM

I would design and build a series of co-axial wind turbines to mount on top of the car, so that when you are driving, the car is powered by the wind. If you are real lucky and have a good headwind, you could discharge the excess energy into an auxiliary battery pack that you could tow behind the vehicle, and then hook that onto your home grid through an inverter and either power your home for free, or run the meter backwards and actually make money driving your car!

If you have a tailwind, just drive the car backwards and you're good to go.

Another thought I had was to build a large water tank to mount on top of the car, and drain the water through a turbine located down by the drive axle. The turbine would generate electricity for the car, and the drive axle's momentum could push the water back up to the tank to run back down through the turbine again. Simple, and quieter than the wind turbines. (BONUS. Make the top out of clear acrylic and the sun would get the water hot enough to warm your home for free while sitting in the driveway!) (DOUBLE BONUS. Add a small tidal turbine to the tank and every time you hit a bump or a pothole, you'd be recharging the car. No more slowing down for the speed bumps! Need a little boost? Just drift over and run on the roadway rumble strips for a while and zap, full charge in no time!)

I suspect other great ideas forthcoming on this topic. Just a hunch.

BTW, Nissan needs to start thinking outside the box a little more, IMHO. I hear they don't pay engineers much in Japan because they get a lot of them cheap from nearby Vietnam. Maybe they need to pay more for some brighter engineers.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 11:56 AM

Can I borrow some of these ideas?

I've got an idea for a pump:

What do you think????

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:05 PM

SEE? Brilliant thinking outside the box, or cup, in this case. Why didn't I think of hooking up an Etch-A-Sketch to my computer long ago?!? Didn't take you long to draw it lyn. You must have a lot of practice.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:12 PM

You'd be amazed at the things I have rattling around in my brain straining to get out!

I once built a whole boat in my brain. Only problem was I forgot to imagine the bilge plug and the blasted thing sank while I was asleep.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 12:33 PM

Thought I'd try my hand at the Etch-a-Sketch thing with a self-portrait, since I see my face a lot, I don't need a model to sit for me.

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#23
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 2:16 PM

Your rendering has vanished. Either that, or you're invisible.

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#30
In reply to #21

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/18/2011 12:24 AM

You know that happen to me once I was building a skyscraper I got to the 150 th.

floor and I forgot to imagine a foundation under it and the dam thing fell over.

It killed me!

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/18/2011 11:58 AM

That explains everything.

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#25
In reply to #19

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 4:26 PM

actually with these new osmotic ? membranes working as a pump your high tech cup might be able to work

very very slowly

lol

did i spell that right ? . not sure if i had the correct big word there Osmosis ??

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#26
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Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 4:45 PM

More like wicking, I'd say.

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#33
In reply to #26

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/19/2011 5:41 PM

but wait ! . water can run uphill

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4955398.stm

:)

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#27

Re: Generator Size to Charge an Electric Car

12/17/2011 6:34 PM

I believe it's called a VOLT, from General Motors. Extended range electric vehicle, or EREV. You can buy three Yaris' for the same price.

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