Previous in Forum: Transfer Gas Requirement   Next in Forum: Chemical for Raw Water Treatment and Water Softener in Palm Oil Mill
Close
Close
Close
65 comments
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20

Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 12:41 PM

I have a warehouse here in the Southern US that has a traction problem out on the truck docks. When there is high humidity the moisture and dust/grime on the truck dock conspire to form an incredibly efficient lubricant that makes loading and unloading hazardous.

A proposed solution is to coat the surface with the same stuff used on aircraft carrier decks. This comes in at about U$90k.

I can't help but think there is a less expensive solution. Presently I am considering "road groves" cut with a walk behind scarifier.

No matter what I put out there, it is going to have to withstand forks and large metal shipping crates called OTD's being drug across them.

I would really appreciate some ideas based on experience.

Thanks,
-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Power-User
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 259
Good Answers: 28
#1

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 1:18 PM

This isn't really an idea based on experience, it's based on a different thought process that you may have already gone through, but have you looked at using different tires on the forklifts?

__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31096
Good Answers: 1728
#2

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 1:29 PM

I would just use sand....

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 1:45 PM

You have the beginning of my thought. Paint the floor with epoxy paint. Before the first coat cures add sand to the surface. Then after curing seal the sand in with a second thin coat. It won't be a permanent fix that will outlast the pyramids but it should last awhile.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 774
#4

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 1:47 PM

A place I worked at had a similar problem years ago. The simplest solution was to just periodically remove the grime with a good pressure washing.

Some days cleanliness does actually improve working speed and efficiency.

(But you didn't hear it from me.)

The other thing to consider is the surface of the concrete. Smooth polished concrete looks very nice but it is in fact a considerable work hazard in anything but the driest of conditions. A rough brushed texture surface is far more favorable in a commercial or industrial work environment where spills of unknown liquids and high traffic are prevalent.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 331
Good Answers: 10
#34
In reply to #4

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 7:39 AM

The WalMart warehouse that I worked at in Missouri while in college did this, but they used a small street sweeper. They also used this sweeper to clean the isleways in the warehouse daily.

__________________
"We cannot sow thistles and reap clover. Nature simply does not run things that way. She goes by cause and effect." Napoleon Hill
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#5

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 2:59 PM

"I have a warehouse here in the Southern US that has a traction problem............" You might try a new method......

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Electrical Construction

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mid Western USA - The Corn Belt
Posts: 1439
Good Answers: 58
#6

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 3:09 PM

I agree with PMoon

I worked at a gear manufacturing plant years ago.

The final stop for the gears before the loading dock was the Luberizor.

Basically a hot acid dip and a hot oil bath to prevent the gears from corroding during shipping.

These bins of gears would get loaded onto the trucks dripping with Luberizor oil which would accumulate on the dock making it slick like an ice skating rink.

We tried pressure washing, oil dry, sand epoxy, and absorbent pads on the loading dock to no avail.

The only useful fix was changing the bald fork lift tires with new ones that had treads.

__________________
The first 5 days after a weekend are always the hardest................................
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#7

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 3:18 PM

PMoon--We have several different types of tires. Some slip more or less. None are safe.

SolarEagle--See Below...

redfred--We have tried several variations of this. Any epoxy only lasts a few days or weeks. I would prefer a solution that lasted several years.

kramarat--Thank you, but not nearly course enough.

tcmtech--This may be the best solution in the short term. Still looking for a more permanent solution.

Anonymous Poster #1--Smirk.

KJK/USA--No luck so far with different treads

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 3:25 PM

You can have it sandblasted to whatever coarseness you want.

I just used this site for the picture.

http://www.oceanrestorations.com/restoration-concrete-texturing.htm

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vallejo, CA USA
Posts: 132
Good Answers: 10
#21
In reply to #8

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 10:35 PM

I agree, sandblasting can be done very quickly. Alternately, a 3000 PSI or more water washer will roughen the concrete too.

__________________
It was burning when I put it down!
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 4:04 PM

A few days or weeks you say with epoxy sand. That implies to me that you're doing some very heavy volume off of your loading dock. I think then that a cost/benefit analysis of the aircraft carrier grade coating even with an expense of $90k will be a bargain compared to the expenses of liability and down time from repairs to lesser surfaces and accidents.

The only alternative I see requires a knowledge of what is coating the loading dock surface. I don't see just a morning dew of moisture turning into a slick, hazardous surface. Maybe your fork lifts are leaking a fine spray of oil or coolant?

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 4:43 PM

The $90k alternative is talked up by the salesman, but I fear it may not last much longer than the epoxy paint and grit. The only way to know for sure how long it will last is to do it, or talk to someone who has, hence the reason I asked you lunks.

As for not understanding how slick it can get, talk to a fork truck driver. Maybe you need to talk to a fork truck driver from the SOUTH! It gets a bit sticky down here.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 5:15 PM

What's with the attitude?

Obviously when things get damp on your loading dock, things get slick. Talking to one of your fork lift drivers will not tell me you or anything more than that. I suspect that this may not be just because of water on your surfaces but possibly water and something else. Maybe this added substance comes from the fork lifts themselves. Maybe it comes from residue from your cleaning crew's cleaners. Then again it might be bird or other animal droppings that happens during off hours.

If it was just water on a surface that made things too slick, then fork truck drivers would have trouble getting to work on the slick roads. So there must be something making a traction difference between the roads and your loading dock. I don't know what the difference is, I'm just trying to suggest a few things you may have overlooked.

I'm where water freezes to make black ice on the roads. So don't tell me about how slick things get on a foggy day.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 5:46 PM

My sincerest apologies for not using emoticons.

Please know that I meant no offence. I really should have used a wink or a nudge or something to let you know I was just ribbing you a little. I really am sorry for coming across like a yankee.

I understand your point regarding a foreign material obviously being present other than water. I know from personal experience, and having spoken to many other people from this area, that warehouse floors all develop the same surface condition when the humidity is at or above 100%. Fine talc is as slick as black ice when it is wet. Tire dust, dust from outside repeatedly driven over by fork trucks, these are likely suspects. Down here the concrete will wick moisture up out of the ground. When the conditions are right, you can count on 120,000 ft^2 of slick a$$ $hit.

Whatever the reason, I'm still looking for a solution.

I really do honestly appreciate your input, and I apologize again for the offence.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: in optimism
Posts: 4050
Good Answers: 129
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 6:32 PM

Given that you probably have to acid etch to get any coating to stick - which may be why sand epoxy didn't last - why not try just a heavy etch?

Traction is after all about breaking the film. Micro gaps in the concrete give it somewhere to go.

Go too course and it will just generate tyre rubber beads and like a race track 'off the line', will be 'a skating rink'.

I.e. your base problem is lovely smooth steel troweled finish.

Address that first.

__________________
There is no sin except stupidity. (Oscar Wilde, Irish dramatist, novelist, & poet (1854 - 1900))
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#16
In reply to #14

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 6:43 PM

In addition:

If moisture is wicking out of the concrete, it likely means that a moisture barrier wasn't put down before the concrete was poured. I do have experience with this, and I can guarantee that any coating that is put down will fail. That leaves etching or sandblasting. A coating will not stop moisture from coming from underneath for long..........................it will peel off in sheets.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 7:02 PM

First you need to determine how the moisture is getting there.

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5242843_concrete-floor-sweat_.html

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#22
In reply to #17

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 11:41 PM

Really? OK, well we are on the Gulf Coast. Humidity is commonly 100% or more. There are sections of the warehouse that are more than 50 years old. So. . . all of the above.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#29
In reply to #22

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 6:54 AM

If the warehouse has doors, you may want to consider treating the air, rather than the concrete. Nothing you put on the floor is going to stop the moisture problem. I'm sure the workers wouldn't mind. Usual disclaimer.

http://www.bry-air.com/

http://www.breathepureair.com/dehumidifiers_industrial.html

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 2
#53
In reply to #22

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 6:10 PM

Just a note - you can NOT have more than 100% humidity [100% is 100%].

Have you thought of refrigerating the loading area, like a giant cold store ? That is a way to decrease the relative humidity, and will keep the forklift operators happy during the warm months.

A longer term project would be to remove the floor which has this this problem and re-build it with moisture barriers etc.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42294
Good Answers: 1662
#54
In reply to #53

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 6:23 PM

Phil,

I can tell you've never been in Texas, in the middle of the summer, when it's just rained and the sun's back out.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 2
#55
In reply to #54

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 6:55 PM

Been to Texas; Houston, San Antonio, Van Horn, El Paso, but around October.

I understand about the rain and re-emerging sun - sure seems hotter and more humid, with steam rising off the black topped road, but as I said 100% is 100%. It's the temperature - humidity combination. Air at 85F can contain more moisture [humidity] than that at 35F. Talk with an air-conditioning guy/gal, they'll bore you stupid with physics - if they've been properly taught.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#56
In reply to #55

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/06/2012 8:28 AM

Thanks Phil D. I was smiling when I wrote "100% or more." Honestly, I can read a psychrometric chart as well as the next guy. Frankly I expected someone to call me out sooner.

However, I maintain that is IS possible to have more than 100% "humidity," that is, water vapor PLUS liquid water, in the form of mist like droplets, entrained in the air and carried on the breeze. "Humidity so thick you could catch it in a swinging cup."

Give me a hollar next time your in houston, and I'll bring you down to where we live and work. Some time in mid August aught to do just fine!

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 2
#59
In reply to #56

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/07/2012 2:05 AM

I'm telling you something you already know - rainfall / 'thick' humidity etc - result from the air NOT being able to hold it.....

I'm guessing you're closer to Galveston, rather then Houston. Even so I can' t say when I'll next be in the US - let alone Texas ! Last time in Houston was NOVEMBER '78; last time in the US - Jan '83 !

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#19
In reply to #16

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 8:54 PM

Well there's a significant difference in northern versus southern concrete structures. Here frost heaving is a problem so all concrete must have at least footings below the frost line. Also living on one of the largest sand bars in the world, moisture barriers are mandatory everywhere. I hate to think how quickly water wicking concrete would crumble after a frozen winter like last winter. I wonder what concrete standards tcmtech must meet?

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#24
In reply to #19

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 11:48 PM

I AM thankful we don't have the winters y'all face up there.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2215
Good Answers: 69
#10

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 4:27 PM

Have you considered something like PSP or Marston mats? These were used during WWII as temporary runways and roads, they can be inter-locked and pulled up for cleaning trash out from under them.

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.
Posts: 1023
Good Answers: 69
#52
In reply to #10

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 2:17 PM

Yeah, good answer, either that or heavy gauge expanded mesh.

Regards.

__________________
No hay conocimiento ni herramienta que sustituya al sentido comun.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42294
Good Answers: 1662
#15

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 6:37 PM

This is a simple problem. The floors are slick. The tires are slick. Add oil and moisture and you've got a problem.

You need to increase the surface area, or friction of one of your traction surfaces. You can cut a lot of saw grooves for less than $90K.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#25
In reply to #15

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 11:54 PM

This is what I am thinking, but the salesman says his product is harder than the concrete and will last longer. . .

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31096
Good Answers: 1728
#18

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 7:53 PM

This stuff might work $2 sq ft ....

http://www.nonslipcoating.com/concrete.htm

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bristol, Tennessee
Posts: 1176
Good Answers: 57
#20

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 9:44 PM

This sounds like a really interesting problem, I wish I was there to analyze it and try some tactics. I do expect the concrete was finished to a beautiful shine, contractors just love those helicopter polishers, and a little dry cement at the finish will produce a really gorgeous polished surface. Nice to look at and easy to sweep, but slippery. I prefer a broom finish, but that has to be specified at the time of the pour.

I'm sure the fork lifts help to shine the floor even more with flat rubber tires adding tire dust, motor oil, hydraulic oil, and who knows what else to the floor. What ever you do, the fork lifts will continue to add their contributions to the floor.

I like the pressure washing idea, and don't forget to wash the hell out of the fork lift tires! They have been sucking up oil for years, and will ooze it forever. After washing the wheels, run the fork lifts over waste cardboard to blot up any oil that will squeeze out.

Any time you have cardboard, put it on the floor to blot up grime. It will blot the floor and the wheels at the same time. Toss it when it gets loaded.

See if you can add a harsh detergent, acid, whatever, to the pressure washer while cleaning the concrete. Maybe after a while you can etch the polish off the floors and a nice traction surface will develop.

There are some citrus cleaners that will clean the floor really great, and they don't smell bad at all! If it's real citrus, it may be acidic, too, and etch a little.

Best wishes on this one, let us know how it goes.

__________________
mike k
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#23

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/04/2012 11:46 PM

The proposed solution at present is to scarify the top down 1/4" or so and then add a epoxy with grit. The covering would be the same used on aircraft carriers. Expensive stuff.

I was hoping for some alternatives. . . That someone had actually had success with.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 152
#26
In reply to #23

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 5:19 AM

You may not have noticed, but the navy does not drag loaded containers across the decks of it's aircraft carriers. Maybe that is because they don't want to scuff up their nice pretty surfaces. They do however, wash down their decks fairly frequently with high pressure washers. This is as much to remove aviation fuel as it is to remove grime and aircraft tyre deposit. Compare the number of planes and other vehicles that cross a carrier deck with the number of fork trucks that run on your apron and you will find that the deck is very lightly used. If your salesman is so confident that his solution will solve your problem, offer to let him do a sample patch in a well used area at his own cost. If it works you can pay the $90K and a premium for the sample work.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 259
Good Answers: 28
#27
In reply to #23

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 5:23 AM

This will be the best advice I have ever given: "Get a Warranty."

__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate
Mexico - Member - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 20º 35' N 100º 23' W
Posts: 26
Good Answers: 3
#47
In reply to #23

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 10:24 AM

I am not an expert, but if your concrete floor is wicking moisture up out of the ground, then this epoxy with grit, or any alternative to cover this concrete will not work for long, the moisture from the ground will damage any cover you put on your concrete floor.

I think you first need to prevent the concrete to wick moisture from the ground and then work on different solutions to prevent the slippery floor.

Hope you can find a good and affordable solution .

__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." Carl Sagan
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1366
Good Answers: 27
#28

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 6:46 AM

Try here www.highwaysmaintenance.com/skidtext.htm.

We use this on our intersections to help braking. Warning, it stinks!

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 688
Good Answers: 21
#30

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 7:11 AM

After reading most of the other post. It seems to me that you have more of a wicking problem than anything else. I have seen the same issues at times on various runways I have used. To stop the absence of traction at these sites The FAA has worked with many engineering firms to come up with a solution that really does work. It is also something I have used on dock ramps over the years for the same reason you have stated. Runways are cross cut to cut the hydroplaning effect in wet or damp weather. There are many firms that can do this type of work and it won't cost you an arm & a leg. Well maybe just a leg. But, it works and stops the problem. Good Luck, Run out to your local airport and have a look at the runway. I might add normal 5 to 6K lengths are done this way. Jets like to be able to stop. Smaller airports may not have this.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#33
In reply to #30

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 7:33 AM

At the risk of having Lyn call me negative, the more I think about it, the less I think a solution like this will work.

Both a non skid coating and cut grooves sound good...................right up to the point that we have to consider that they are dragging metal shipping containers across the surface.

I think that with a nonskid coating, the dragging of the containers, (even if the coating lasts), will quickly polish off the nonskid additive.

In the case of the cut grooves, what I see happening, is that the dragging of the containers will quickly fill the grooves with wet dust......................again, creating a slippery polished surface.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#31

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 7:12 AM

The cheapest idea I have is to cover the floor with sand to regain traction but that would likely cause more problems for you. Would it be feasible to use a ride on floor scrubber to clean the problem area as needed? These seem to be more common these days. You might be able to find a used one cheap. Or rent one to see if it helps first. I feel your pain with the moisture problem. In the Midwest we experience this when the warm spring air and cool concrete meet.

Good luck

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#57
In reply to #31

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/06/2012 8:32 AM

Our scrubber arrived yesterday. Thanks!

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#58
In reply to #57

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/06/2012 9:27 AM

Let me us know how it works out please.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#61
In reply to #58

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/07/2012 8:33 AM

That would be nice. Sometimes people don't know how emotionally involved we get with these projects.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5198
Good Answers: 266
#32

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 7:30 AM

Most solid fork lift tires have little tread in them even when bought new. Since there is no tread there is nowhere for the muck on your dock to go. Until the weight of the truck forces it out. Cutting tread into the tire will improve the traction. Knives are available that can be used to cut tread in them. These heated knives cut about a 1/4" wide X 1/4" deep groove. The tread pattern is up to you. I have cut tread into the tires on many lift trucks to resolve the issue you bring up. A zig zag pattern works best.

Note just as on any vehicle the faster you go no amount of tread will hold traction.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply
Power-User
Canada - Member -  Member

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg NY (just south of buffalo) pre-Hamburg(1998) home was the Yukon territory of Canada
Posts: 486
Good Answers: 27
#35

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 8:00 AM

When I was still in the Yukon we used studded tires on our tow-motors (forklifts). This may solve the vehicular traction by both biting into the concrete as well as providing creating a pocked surface by the studs digging the concrete.

__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a talented fool
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#36

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 8:19 AM

If these containers are being loaded on flatbed trucks, you could probably purchase an overhead crane for loading that would cost less than $90K.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#38
In reply to #36

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 8:28 AM

Nope, there is a roof over the dock and we use box trucks. We need to keep our product dry.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#40
In reply to #38

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:06 AM

I can't imagine something like this costing anywhere near 90K for the dock area.

http://www.slipnot.com/products/

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#42
In reply to #40

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:28 AM

We don't know how many square miles of loading dock is being considered. But I agree that a grating system where debris can fall and be cleaned out from time to time seems like a good idea.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#44
In reply to #40

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:34 AM

I am concerned that a fork or a crate may catch the corner of a deck plate and cause an injury. As of now, I am looking for a softer solution.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15141
Good Answers: 937
#41
In reply to #38

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:24 AM

No, an over head crane is built into the building and is under your roof. Dragging shipping containers over smooth concrete is just polishing the surfaces to be smoother. Depending on the size of the mass you're moving, this can easily be much more than $90k to install after the building installation to move a container anywhere in your building by crane, but it will solve your problem of polishing your surfaces. Instead a loading dock crane that moves the container to some rolling cart sounds like a better idea.

I really do not intend to offend, but from the beginning I've wondered if your methodology for moving material is up to the task. Any work that routinely alters your building sounds to me as if you're doing it wrong. The root of your problem may not be your floors.

I'm just trying to politely provide another alternative to your problem. Running out of traction implies to me that maybe you might need a new method that does the same job with less traction.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Power-User
Canada - Member -  Member

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg NY (just south of buffalo) pre-Hamburg(1998) home was the Yukon territory of Canada
Posts: 486
Good Answers: 27
#37

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 8:27 AM

you may also want to consider tire chains for forkifts. one source is: www.tirechainsrequired.com

__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a talented fool
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 94
Good Answers: 3
#39

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 8:55 AM

Have you considered heated fans to keep the concrete dry?

Down here in the south, cool concrete condenses warm moist air. If you can keep the concrete temp up, the moisture will not form.

Or, if there is a way to cut the concrete and install heater strips in the concrete.

__________________
"Never mistake intelligence for wisdom"
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley)
Posts: 4364
Good Answers: 177
#43

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:30 AM

You may want to consider an Industrial concrete floor utilizing a specially processed clean Iron aggregate (particles) additive that's used typically very extraordinary heavy duty traffic and impact areas. This material is added to the concrete over-topping mixture, so you will need to grind down and roughen-up the existing concrete slab......I recommend at least 2-inches minimum of removal. Prior to the modified concrete setup, you must apply a heavy bristle broom finish and/or cut serrations into the top of the new slab (like those done on airport runways or state interstate on & off ramps).

Here's a link to a manufacturer of said Iron industrial floor coatings:

www.anti-hydro.com

Check out either the A-H Metallic Hardener #225 or the A-H Irontop products.

I have specified both products for industrial slab-on-grade projects in the past with great success....one was done at an US Army arsenal (US Army Material Command) that manufacturers 120mm smooth bore tank guns for the M-1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank....another one was at a US Dept of Energy facility jointly run by the US Navy and GE.....while another was used in a specialty steel producing plant that produced made-to-order SS products. One benefit from using this product is increased forklift tire traction! Th9is product will last for years and years, even under the most severe loadings, impacts, dragging of heavy steel boxes. Also, it is very easy to clean off!!!

signed,

CaptMoosie, PhD, PE

__________________
"Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#45
In reply to #43

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 9:48 AM

.one was done at an US Army arsenal (US Army Material Command) that manufacturers 120mm smooth bore tank guns for the M-1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank....another one was at a US Dept of Energy facility jointly run by the US Navy and GE.....

Um, I know I'm sounding negative again..........................but, any idea what the price tag was?

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley)
Posts: 4364
Good Answers: 177
#46
In reply to #45

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 10:09 AM

Ummm about the same price as an Industrial "Trap Rock" concrete slab overlay........yeah it's pricey, but lasts for decades.

These floors were done in the early 80's, and no, I don't have the figures on hand (projects were done for an engineering firm I used to work for, now closed). Sorry!

The Arsenal I mentioned is the Watervliet Arsenal, located about 10 miles north of Albany NY. That slab was literally tortured during the QA/QC testing and passed with flying colors! The floor featured a non-slip surface and I didn't fear loosing my traction while walking it, even if there was an abundance of cutting oil (they use a lot of this in the gun barrel manufacture) on it's surface. Sorry, I cannot divulge any further info about this facility since it's highly classified.....

__________________
"Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#48

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 11:11 AM

I've only got one more possible idea and then I'm out.

Call your insurance company and see what they recommend.

You may get a substantial drop in your rate by going with a system that they approve. Between that, and choosing a system with a good warranty, you should have something that will last and will potentially pay for itself.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#49
In reply to #48

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 11:37 AM

It will probably involve enclosing your outdoor loading dock, but $90 grand will go a long way.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#50

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 12:12 PM

OK, update. We are going to put a floor sweeper/scrubber out in the warehouse for large area cleaning. Also, we are going to pressure wash (7000 psi) the docks with a degreasing agent, starting on a monthly basis.

This is our starting point. Thank you all for your input.

I would love to install the military concrete suggested by CaptMoosie, it's just not an option to shut down a dock for a two week cure time. Maybe in sections.

First we are going to try the cleanliness route. If this all blows up in catastrophic fialure, I'll be shure to let y'all know.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Mining Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Construction Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Hunting - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1014
Good Answers: 12
#51

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/05/2012 2:09 PM

All along with your daily housekeeping, you might want to try grooving the concrete. It's a common practice in bridge construction in preparation for icy weather.

__________________
John J Baker
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Midwest
Posts: 450
Good Answers: 38
#60

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/07/2012 8:18 AM

Have you talked with the forklift parts suppliers ?

How about the local forklift dealer ?

I know that there are a variety of tires/wheels availalable for various machines.

__________________
We have met the enemy....and he is us. POGO
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2215
Good Answers: 69
#62

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/10/2012 2:35 PM

-A-, This isn't a sales pitch, but I just ran across this new product called Never Wet. I don't know any of the performance spec's on it. You might want to contact them and explain your problem with traction. And being this is a new product on the market, you might get a big break on the price if they can use you as part of their product research. They're apparently located Pennsylvania. Good Luck, Dan

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#63
In reply to #62

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/12/2012 8:32 AM

I'm looking into it now. Thanks.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Good Answers: 20
#64
In reply to #63

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/12/2012 9:12 AM

"Please note that our Never Wet products are NOT available for Consumers as a Retail product at this time. We expect to have retail spray can products available by mid 2012."

They are presently only interested in other manufactures incorporating Never Wet into their products.

Also, this doesn't seem to stand up to mechanical wear. . . I'll keep an ear out for it but continue to pursue other options.

-A-

__________________
question everything
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2215
Good Answers: 69
#65
In reply to #64

Re: Fork Lift Traction on Pavement

01/12/2012 3:53 PM

I'm sorry to hear that, anyhow, good luck. DJ

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 65 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

-A- (14); 34point5 (1); Anonymous Poster (1); bakerjohn (1); CaptMoosie (2); Catmandu (1); dj95401 (3); fixitorelse (1); Heisei (1); jhhassociates (1); JIMRAT (1); KJK/USA (1); kramarat (11); lonster (2); lyn (2); mike k (1); MJCronin (1); mrehmus (1); ozzb (1); Phil D. (3); PMoon (2); redfred (6); SolarEagle (2); tcmtech (1); The Mechanic (2); WWkayaker (1); Yahlasit (1)

Previous in Forum: Transfer Gas Requirement   Next in Forum: Chemical for Raw Water Treatment and Water Softener in Palm Oil Mill

Advertisement