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Commentator

Join Date: May 2011
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Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/25/2012 2:22 AM

I am unable to understand that how Power Factor in a particular section be Leading without any Capacitor Bank. Energy meters connected at 6.6 KV induction motors, at the outlet of 11/6.6 KV, 2MVA transformer, are measuring leading power factor on full load and Lagging PF on no load. Transformer is 90% loaded. I cross checked all meters and they are found to be true. I am unable to understand the phenomena. We have two TGs with 25 MW Capacity each and synchronised with each other. Generation Voltage is 11 KV. PF at 11 KV bus is 0.92 (Lagging) and frequency is 49.9, Total four induction motors are connected at 6.6 KV bus.

Can I reduce generation frequency or Power factor to maintain lagging PF in this particular section? Is it beneficial to run these 6.6 KV motors with leading power factor?

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
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#1

Re: Leading power factor without Capacitive load

02/25/2012 6:30 AM
  1. Induction motors draw lagging current, no way around that. My guess is that full load would be 0.9 power factor, 25 degrees lagging: no load almost 90 degrees lag, a swing of 65 degrees, centred on about 60 degrees.
  2. How do you know the meters are true??
  3. I think the one of the coils of the power factor meter are in the wrong phase/polarity, giving, for example, a 60 degree error which moves "zero phase" indication to 60 degrees lag. Thus the power factor swings to both lead and lag as the motor current phase changes with load. Because you see "lead" at full load, first guess is current input is from wrong phase (120 degrees giving a polarity change, the vector is over 90 degrees away from what it should be).
  4. You need to check CT and VT positions and polarities very thoroughly and check meter/transducer connections against the instrument maker's diagram. There may be a wiring error compared with drawings, or a drawing error compared to correct connection. There might be more than one error! This test should have been done at commissioning. Since all units behave same, it looks like a drawing error.
  5. I suggest a battery "flash" polarity/connection check from HV bars to meter transducer terminals to verify what is really connected to what and its polarity. Of course, you must do that Test with proper isolation and grounding for safety.
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#2

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/25/2012 12:18 PM

6. The motors are not induction motors, they are Synchronous motors.

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Guru

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/25/2012 8:12 PM

A good suggestion, JRaef. However, Synchronous motor on fixed excitation moves from lag towards lead as shaft load is increased. But that is with constant supply voltage, the transfo regulation drops supply voltage as as load increases - which moves phase the other way.

Maybe there is a computerised AVR box set to give this characteristic.

And do not forget that the transfo reactance would cause a lagging HV input power factor on full load resistive. To put unity power factor on HV system at full load the secondary (motor) current would have to have a leading power factor.

So over to the original post Satendrakumart for more information, like the actual values of machine voltage and power factor at no load and full load.

In reply to his query on the benefits of having a motor drawing leading current, it does make it possible to run the system near unity power factor giving lower current and losses and better voltage regulation.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/25/2012 11:46 PM

7. Is it possible that the induction motor is running faster than it's synchronous speed ? so instead of drawing current from system it supplied the system.

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Participant

Join Date: Feb 2012
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#5

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/26/2012 12:04 AM

Paralleled generators must be exactly voltage matched. If the "droop" on one of the generator voltage regulators is slow responding, the differential voltage between the generators will result in an un-balanced load share with a re-circulating current between the two sources. The result will affect power factor. Remember that power factor is the ratio between "true power" and "apparent power". The recirculating current is basically "watt-less power"; the only work is heating of the interconnection bus. Once the generators are paralleled, you can control load share by controlling the mechanical input power (engine throttle) if the load share is un-equal. I have experienced this same phenomenon, resulting in a depressed power factor.

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#6

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/26/2012 8:03 AM

I think u have to double check your meter and try manually calculate the power factor Pf=E/(V*I*1.732)

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Commentator

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#7

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/26/2012 9:52 PM

Thanks to all for your valuable comments, I would like to clarify:

1. All motors are induction motors, and these are connected at Auxiliary trafo of Power Plant.

2. I have checked all possibility of CT / PT phase reversal by trial & error method.

3. Two generators are kept at different loading. One Generator is kept in load mode at full loading. Other is kept at about 50 to 75 % loading as per requirement and it is kept in speed mode.

4. I checked Energy meters with portable meter (power quality analyzer). When it is connected to any of one phase, graph clearly shows leading current 10 to 15 degree with respect to voltage.

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Active Contributor

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/27/2012 1:03 AM

Dear Satendra............several questions are popping up my mind.......what is the measured power factor at the 6.6kV bus? are all the motors showing leading power factor? motors have DOL starters or soft starters??

1 thing is obvious........if without any investment you are getting leading power factor..........you are a lucky man.......actually it is better not only for your motors but also for your system.....if finally you find out the actual reason..........please intimate teh same...........i have never came across this kind of situation

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/27/2012 6:24 AM

Thanks for additional info in post #7, satendrakumart. Regarding your answers....

  1. OK, it is induction motors. I believed your first post, but the synchronous motor explanation was a good one.
  2. "Trial and error". If you have a meter with one voltage and one current input, one chooses a PT first (one of 3 phases), a CT (one of 3), then a PT polarity (one of 2), finally CT polarity. That is 3*3*2*2 = 36 combinations. When you have two voltage and two current coils it is 144 (some use 3 CT). Remember the full accuracy for 3 phase 4 wire unbalanced load is got with 3 CTs and 3 line-neutral voltages. This is why trial and error rarely works on wrong "wattmeter" connections. Have you really tried all combinations?
  3. There is only one voltage on the busbar, however many generators in parallel.
  4. As written, induction motors draw lagging current. Even induction generators draw lagging current to magnetise them. Are you talking full load leading, your first post wrote lagging at low load, leading full load??.
  5. The line to neutral voltage can be 30 degrees off from the line to line voltage. That could turn a 15 degree current lag into a 15 degree lead.
  6. Could you provide some diagrams of your system and the meter connections, clarifying whether you are using line or phase voltage. Using a meter made for line-neutral voltage with line-line voltage is bound to cause error.
  7. Of course, modern meters with computers allow the CT/PT ratios to be programmed to make the full load power read right, even if the PT connection is wrong.

Reply on item 6 is vital to progress. Some actual current and voltage values would also help.

67model

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Commentator

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/27/2012 9:40 PM

Dear 67model

Thanks a lot. I have to recheck the connections thoroughly for line-to-line vs line-to-neutral voltage, before replying.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kolkata, West Bengal, India
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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Leading Power Factor Without Capacitive Load

02/27/2012 12:06 PM

Is capacitor bank is permanently connected across the induction motor and it is giving over compensation? You may please check it.

Thanks,

Manindra

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