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Smoke Management

03/05/2012 3:44 AM

Please if anyone can help?

We have warehouse with full designed firefighting system (water sprinklers). The area of the warehouse is 8500 square meters (approx. 91500 ft2) and the average height 13.5 meters (approx. 44.3 ft.). The consultant calculates the suction fans in the roof to change 4 times/ hours the whole air volume of the warehouse in case of fire (to get rid of smoke) according to Smoke Management codes. It is ridiculous as the result comes with 38 huge fans. Could anyone professional tell us how to calculate this according to codes?

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#1

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 4:29 AM

If all of the warehouse was on fire at the same time, you wouldn't need smoke management, Guv, as everyone in in would be toast.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 6:57 AM

Including the wiring to the fans.

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:40 AM

Indeed.

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#3

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 7:08 AM

Which codes?

Where are you?

If you change the air in the factory every 15 mins - you'll be pulling in a whole load of lovely oxygen to feed the fire. The usual advice in the event of fire is to shut down all ventilation to help smother the fire.

If protection of staff from smoke inhalation is important (distance to doors may be an issue), then consider buying breathing apparatus for staff use in the event of fire and training them in its use regularly.

Whatever the right solution, you should be talking to your local fire officer for advice. They are the experts both in fire management and local codes.

Any advice you receive here should be considered as suggestions only - you have no idea whether or not we're qualified to give it.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 7:52 AM

I was thinking the same. With ceilings that high, I would think that personnel would have ample time to get out. A bunch of fans are going to make a smoldering fire, burn hot and spread.

The people to ask are the ones that will be performing the inspection, and are responsible for enforcing the local codes. Besides, they work for the government.................it makes them feel smart when someone asks them a question. They will usually help with an answer.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:30 AM

It all depends on where the OP is - in the UK, the inspectors are attached to the Fire Brigade. ;o)

Good call on the ceiling height. I'd forgotten that by the time I posted.

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#5

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 8:17 AM

Check with the BFE fire department.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:38 AM

BFE?

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#9
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Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:43 AM

American slang for middle of nowhere.

Bum Fu%k Egypt.

No disrespect meant to our Egyptian colleagues.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:49 AM
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#11

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 9:52 AM

I would think these fans would be used for spilled chemical fumes rather than smoke removal...Are dangerous chemicals to be housed in this warehouse? If so, then the fans may be a code requirement...I have at least one piece of advice, don't turn the fans on with the overhead access doors closed,,or be prepared to replace the doors...I would also consider larger fans if possible, go big....400,000 cfm If the possibility exists that the fumes may be volatile then explosion proof is required...

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 11:03 AM

...and if that quantity of flammables is needed to be stored, then a properly-designed tank, not a building, is needed to store it.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 11:14 AM

I am sorry to ask i thought i am chatting with professional

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 11:29 AM

Total cubic volume of building x number of times per hour you want the air replaced / number of fans will give you the cfm required for each fan.

115,000 cu meters of air is a lot. 4 turnovers/hour is 460,000 cu meters.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 11:33 AM

Well, let's see what we have: The area of the warehouse is 8500 square meters (approx. 91500 ft2) and the average height 13.5 meters (approx. 44.3 ft.). This is ≈ 4,000,000 ft3 of room air.

Rate of four changes per hour ≈ 16,000,000 ft3 per hour, ≈ 267,000 ft3 per minute.

You said "Could anyone professional tell us how to calculate this according to codes?" If the code calls for four changes per hour and your dimensions are accurate enough, then the answer lies in your information.

Would you like this to be accomplished with one fan?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 11:38 AM

One fan? Crumbs!

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Smoke Management

03/06/2012 5:29 AM

Now you're describing the building when the fan gets done with it.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Smoke Management

03/06/2012 7:41 AM

Indeed.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Smoke Management

03/05/2012 5:41 PM

This code of which you speak...

Are you using NFPA 204, NFPA 1 (Chapter 34), or something else?

This warehouse space; what is being warehoused? Sprinklered and vented?

These 38 proposed fans you find so ridiculous... how many are blowing makeup air into the building?

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Smoke Management

03/06/2012 6:01 AM

you have to notice that our consultant design was considering the warehouse as Atrium. So the result is wrong.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Smoke Management

03/06/2012 6:13 AM

Is there any more pertinent information which you have not shared with us?

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Smoke Management

03/06/2012 7:43 AM

...like why it's a warehouse and not a tank or a silo, and what the local Fire Prevention Officer and the end Client's fire insurance company have to say on the initial design?

Sheesh!

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