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Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/30/2012 10:10 AM

when the Flow direction is from right or left to the cylinder, magnus effect applies. but what if the direction of Flow is from the front of cylinder as shown in the figure ? and how the Drag and other possible force employs ?
i've been searching on internet but the level of confusion is increasing and many of them were unexplanatory. thanks in advance..

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#1

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/30/2012 2:26 PM

In the case shown the rod would try to rise.

It would also twist, unless it was traveling along the equator, (Of course, we all know what the orientation of the rod to equator wolud be, right) then it would fly straight.

A ball is not subject to twisting owing to its perfect mass distribution around its center.

.................................................................................I forgot what the question was...............................

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 10:26 AM

Just ignore this, I mis-read the question.

Bullet trajectory is a different animal. For one thing, very seldom will a bullet have the same diameter along its entire length.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 1:17 PM

probably not..

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#2

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/30/2012 4:26 PM

What you are describing is what a spinning rifle-bullet experiences, i.e. no Magnus effect*, because all areas on the cylinder's curved side experience the same friction and air (fluid) speed, while the Magnus effect is a result of a difference in those.

It would be pretty bad if you aimed straight and the bullet veered off due to old Magnus...

*SIDE WINDS (excluded for this discussion) do affect spinning projectiles with a Magnus force, but the spin also provides gyroscopic stability.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 1:56 AM

Exactly !! the question was raised after seeing a spinning rifle-bullet.

sir can you please guide me where would i find theoretical analysis on spinning rifle-bullet ? i want to learn difference between spinning bullet and steady bullet and get theoretical knowledge on there efficiency.

i've referred few fluid mechanics books but i didn't find the case where fluid flow direction is as shown in the attached figure (or reference to spinning bullet)

as i was curious about it, i just prepared a model and done analysis on ANSYS 13 Fluent software where i found out that, spinning model shown 3-6% less Cd at different RPM than a steady model.

please tell me very can i get theory behind the Dynamics of spinning rifle bullet sir.

thank you.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 8:54 AM

So is your question directed only towards the bullet?

This would probably be a case of the Magnus effect.

At least thats what they say here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_effect

There will be much more in the internet. Which searches did you try already?

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#12
In reply to #4

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 4:22 PM

Need to read that wikipedia article carefully; it says the Magnus effect develops only from cross-winds or yaw, where the air flow is not exactly along the axis of the bullet, and the portion of air flow that is perpendicular to the bullet axis will cause a small Magus effect.

The question above specified the flow being along the axis of the cylinder... so no Magnus effect for this case.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

06/01/2012 2:03 AM

thanks for responding sir..

this is the point where i was struck sir..

link says that we need to consider magnus effect whn a bullet is fired at an angle..

should we consider it as "negligible magnus effect" or "no Magnus effect"

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

06/01/2012 11:36 AM

If the flow is exactly as in your original question, i.e. 100% along the cylinder axis, then there should be no Magnus effect since the cylinder experiences the same fluid interaction everywhere around its spinning envelope.

When there is an angle between the flow and the axis of spin, you can break the flow vector into parallel and perpendicular components, relative to the cylinder axis, and the perpendicular component of flow will create the Magnus effect, per available equations.

May I ask about your age and country of residence?

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

06/01/2012 11:47 AM

that was pretty clear.. thank you sir..

by the way i'm kanney, 23 years old from India.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 10:04 AM

This paper on drag crisis may shed some light on your question.

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#7

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 11:31 AM

Just googling gyroscopic stability in bullets ?:http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/gyrocond.htm

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#8

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 11:35 AM

Here is a link to a site called "How Bullets Fly"

It looks very comprehensive....

Ferquiza beat me to it!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 1:10 PM

thank you.. that was very helpful.

now i wanna know how would these equations change when water is the medium instead of air???

thanks in advance :)

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#11

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

05/31/2012 1:41 PM

We've already gone over this once:

Hydrodynamics

It's sounding too much like the children's game 20 questions.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

06/01/2012 1:40 AM

yes.. we've already gone through something related to this..

for that you've replied with "Your instructor should be able to answer this question for you, in the proper context for your level of knowledge."

you have never helped me out in the subject but pulling down my interest levels on learn something... please stay off if u've nothing say regarding my doubts.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Explain Fluid Dynamics Behavior for the Fig. Below

06/01/2012 9:56 AM

Here's some advice. Learn :How to Search the Internet.

Then maybe you can get the basics first. As you can see, there are many here willing to search the net and list the sites for you.

Good luck.

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