Previous in Forum: How ATMEGA16 Works?   Next in Forum: A53 Grade B vs A106 Grade B
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1

Small Power Conditioners

07/17/2012 10:24 AM

We have several buildings where the HVAC system is controlled by small ECUs that are 24VAC 100va that I need to find power conditioners that will carry the units through short term power losses up to 500ms. These units, provided by Johnson Controls, (about 150 in three buildings) drop their program and restart with a program upload when a voltage drop is sensed causing a loss of building control. A small in line unit with replaceable, rechargeable battery backup to carry through power dips is needed. I have researched every manufactureer and found only one manufacturer that has units in design and testing. It would be good if the unit was UL listed. Does anyone know of a manufacturer or an available source?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Power conditioner ups
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 19
#1

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/17/2012 11:17 AM

Astounding that in 2nd decade of the 21st century that commercial controllers can lose their setup memory during power loss. Unfortunately, I don't know of a 24Vac back-up.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#2

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/17/2012 11:53 PM

Gee, that sounds stupid. What does JC have to say about it?

You could start with a 24 VDD bus which has to be really common. e.g. http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/ups-module.shtml

That might be enough for 10 units, running all the wires back to a single controller.

There are fire alarm panels that can distribute the 8A as protected Class 2 circuits. e.g. http://cctvpowersupplies.com/power-supplies/12-24-dc-power-supplies/altronix-al300ulxpd16cb-12vdc-or-24vdc-at-2-5-amp-115vac-input-ac-and-battery-monitoring-sixteen-16-ptc-protected-class-2-rated-power-limited-outputs-grey-enclosure-15-5-h-x-12-w-x-4-5-d-ul-listed-ul29.html . I did use a similar one. The charger was built into the panel too and extra battery boxes were available too. Trouble circuits are also there.

Here is a 24 VDC to 24 VAC inverter, but it's only 40 W and they might be coming from here; http://www.powerstream.com/inv-24vdc-24vac.htm which is the same company with the inverter in development.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#3

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 1:49 AM

Here is a 24 VA UPS: http://www.altronix.com/products/data_sheets/DSRESERV1.pdf

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#4

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 2:36 AM

here is a wierd idea. Get yourself a standard UPS and then a AC/DC Load. e.g. http://www.calinst.com/products/CSW/CSW_Specifications.htm Now distribute everything back as a class 2 circuit, meaning fused for 100 VA (I think I'm right here)

So, you can generate the 24 VAC that you need. But keep the room totally locked up or have the factory fix it at 24 VAC.

Yep, you would have to run all of the 24 VAC circuits to a central point. I'd probably make the distribution box use alarm fuses and holders or use a PTC thermister.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#5

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 3:08 AM

Who needs all that when you could get a large 120:24 VAC xformer and a bunch of 4A DIN rail mounted breakers and some terminal strips. Feed the transformer from a nice rack mounted, generator friendly, continuous, sine wave output UPS mounted on the wall.

Size the 24 VAC lengths appropriately for voltage drop and run Class 2 wiring.

When I think, I sometimes come up with bizarre solutions at first. Then they trigger better ones.

You might also have less repairs this way.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 3:23 AM

Here is a 24 VAC @ 3A distribution panel. : http://www.alarmsaf.com/pdf/data_sheets/52-335.pdf

Register to Reply
Power-User
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 185
Good Answers: 13
#7

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 10:40 AM

Why not contact Johnson controls and see if they have a capacitor or battery back up for the ECU memory. You needn't power the HVAC system just keep the memory valid and the system will restart when power is restored.

__________________
Knowledge makes what was impossible, seem easy.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 406
Good Answers: 3
#8

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 1:19 PM

Why not install one 24 vdc emergency battery pack minus the lights in each building. That should keep the logic going for quite a while.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 7
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/18/2012 11:34 PM

The OP wants 100 VA, 24 VAC not DC

Both have issues, 24 VAC isn't readily available and 100 VA is the maximum for class 2 wiring and 24 VAC distribution systems (even UL approved) don't go to 100 VA for some odd reason. Fused is less than PTC protected outputs.

Can you run 2 ports to the HVAC unit? Don't know?

So, there could be considerable wiring expense and resistive losses to go to a central distribution system.

The general use for HVAC is 24 VAC at 40 VA.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 406
Good Answers: 3
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Small Power Conditioners

07/23/2012 7:05 AM

Yep, the op stated ac. I apparently missed that one. Still, A common 24 vac supply can do the job per building. Fire alarm systems do this all the time.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Bud (1); Elroy (1); KeepItSimpleStupid (6); Munster (2)

Previous in Forum: How ATMEGA16 Works?   Next in Forum: A53 Grade B vs A106 Grade B

Advertisement