Sulphate Resisting Cement in Lieu of Type V Cement

Okay, I have two primary questions for you to answer first:

Q #1. What is the end use for the concrete?

Q #2. Is this concrete that you're seeking for in contact with sulfates or hydrogen sulfide?

Without knowing your application, I would offer the following cautions -

Cement is classified in two ways - ASTM cements, under the class codes you have mentioned; and API cements, used in the oilfield.

ASTM Types I and II are readily available. Type IV is less common. Type V is not commonly produced (very rare) and only in bulk.

Oil Wells cements have pretty good availability now due to the expanded amount of oil & gas work. The American Petroleum Institute (API) sets the standards for cements used in the petroleum industry. Frequently, some types can be used interchangeably between the ASTM/API standards. Here is a brief listing of the API cement designations:

Class A Intended for use to 6,000 feet where special properties are not required. Similar to ASTM Type I (common Portland cement).
Class B Intended for use to 6,000 feet where moderate sulfate resistance is required. Similar to ASTM Type II. Class C Intended for use to 6,000 feet where high early strength is needed (regular or sulfate resistant). Similar to ASTM Type III.
Class D Intended for use from 6,000 to 10,000 feet (retarded).
Class E Intended for use from 6,000 to 14,000 feet (retarded).
Class F Intended for use from 10,000 to 16,000 feet (retarded).
Class G Intended for use to 8,000 feet, and similar in composition to API Class B.
Class H Intended for use to 8,000 feet, and similar in composition to API Class B.
Types G & H are similar to ASTM type IV

Types A&B are readily available. Types D,E F are rarely used. Type G is available in Western USA. Type H is more common in Eastern USA and Gulf regions. There is quite a volume of information online for API Cements.

See following reference regarding sulphate resistance -http://www.concrete.net.au/publications/pdf/Sulfate_data.pdf

The technology and understanding of how admixtures affect cements is much better today than even 50 years ago. Often, sulphate resistance can be accomplished by careful monitoring of mix and placement, and judicious use of admixtures. More information about the application would be required before more specific recommendations could be offered.

Not sure if this helps, but we have frequently seen work delayed or expenses greatly increased due to changes required when specified cements are not available. Significant transportation expense can be incurred if what you spec is not available in region where project is located. Another factor is the handling. If the type specified is only available in bulk, then provisions must be considered for pneumatic truck or bulk rail transport. Depending on location, this is sometimes problematic. I realize this is not normally of concern to a designer, but it can significantly impact budgets, scheduling and quality of final product.

Best of luck!

this is in reply to 2 inputs, Thank much gurus!

application is geothermal field where hydrogen sulfide is inherent and

really, cost and schedule impacts are of great consideration.

what do you think is more appropriate for this application? is type 1 + fly-ash ok acceptable?

how about astm c1157 HS, acceptable? is this equivalent to type v? what basically the major components?type2 + FA? type 1+FA? and any admixtures? what are these? cannot find in the web, i guess need to buy it:)

thank you very much:)

lito, this URL link contains an article based on a test report conducted by the US Bureau of Reclamation that is very informative:

http://www.flyash.com/data/upimages/press/TB.7%20Class%20F%20Fly%20Ash%20Increases%20Resistance%20to%20Sulfate%20Attack.pdf

Do a Google search: "sulfide resistant concrete" and you will find a wealth of information on the subject.

If you do use Fly Ash, make sure you specify Type F, not C or G. Also, make sure that you optimize the concrete's impermeability as much as possible using water reducing admixtures and a fairly low Water-to-Cement ratio (W/C ratio).

I don't know much about ASTM C 1157 HS and will have to research it further....

Okay, here's a link for the ASTM C1157 specification that subplanted the old C109 spec (which I am more familiar with) that you may find interesting:

http://www.cement.org/tech/pdfs/ct013pl941astm1157.pdf

Note: There's a newly revised ASTM C1157 spec which came out recently. You need to obtain it along with ASTM C595 specification.

You really need to contact the concrete suppliers (not just one!) in the vicinity of the project to determine the availability of the various cements you are interested in using....

Where are you located?????

Hi Guru,

Thanks much for the inputs, as mentioned earlier i have already at hand the weblinks u referred to, thanks. what i need is a literature or some argument i'd say to prove that type 1 + fly-ash is not a sulphate resisting cement or equivalent to ( some crazy engr here is saying type 1 + fly ash is acceptable). OK, as long as the data sheet or some literature can prove it.

on the other hand, what type of cement does a geothermal field really need? is a moderate sulphate resisting cement OK? or a high sulphate resisting cement is required?

am from asia:)

Thank you

I've never designed a geothermal field with concrete infrastructure before, so I cannot answer you last question directly.

According to one of the URL links that I provided to you, the test results indicate Type I + Fly ash was acceptable at resisting sulphides. I do not remember what the test concentrations were.

When in doubt, perform field tests of different concrete types w/ fly ash using anticipated sulphide concentrations.