Rusted Screws Securing Wet Saw Riving Blade

Find the proper size "tap" drill and drill to old screws out. Then re-thread, or chase, the existing holes.

Centering the drill relative to the hole is critical. If the drill wanders you could be left with a misplaced hole, then you'd have to enlarge the through holes for clearance.

You might try an EZ out first. These work sometimes. It bites into the rusted screw and unscrews it out of the hole, maybe. I'd heat the metal first to expand the hole, making it easier to get the screw out.

"TAP drill" now what is a "tap drill"; Also how do you rethread and what do you mean by "chase". Please can you explain more in terms for some one who has no background in this sort of work or the language equipment associated with it.

Angus

Tap drill is a drill that is the size recommended for drilling a threaded hole. The diameter of the drill is the same as the minor diameter of of the tapped hole. Tap Drill Chart

Chasing is a term used by machinists for re-tapping an existing hole. It "renews" the threads.

When you drill out the hole, if you do it right, the threads of the screw will remain in the threads in the hole. These will need to be removed by re-tapping the hole to the proper thread size.

Maybe you should try thr ez-out first. Don't forget the heat if you do try the ez-out. This will expand the hole relative to the screw, due to thermal expansion of the metals.

You should be able to loosen these up with a hammer and screw driver and punch...and a liberal amount of WD40...It takes a couple of days sometimes, and if you have the time to spare, usually easier than drilling out....

The first question is how good is screw head that contacts the screwdriver? If this is still good, and has not filled itself with material, you should be able to get the screws out. BP Blaster is flammable, and care must be taken to be safe. I would try to keep a charged garden hose handy when the torch is in use. Try the torch on the screw, followed by a spray of very cold Blaster. Store it in the freezer till ready for use. As the screw area cools, tap with a small hammer. Setting up vibrations will help work the Blaster between the two metals. Do not distort the metal, just tap. Now lean into the screw with the best fitting screwdriver you have. Push the driver into that screw head. If there is filled with material, or rust, clean it out, well. That slot, across is all that you have to transfer sufficient torque to remove that screw.

Patience. I can presume that you want to preserve this saw, and not buy a new one. If so, patience will be required. The heat-cold-tap-twist cycle may need to be repeated many times. If the screw does turn, even just a tiny amount, you need more Blaster. Try going back and forth a few times to work that Blaster into the threads of the screw. The more times you go back and forth, the further the screw should start to turn on the removal direction.

Do not think that the easy-outs are an easy cure. The easy outs on small screws like you have are touchy to get to work. You are trading the drive of a screwdriver for a tapered reverse screw to remove that screw of yours. That will require careful drilling of the correct size hole in the middle of that screw. Then you have to hope that the easy-out will bite into the screw remnants. And if it does, will the screw come loose before the easy-out snaps off?

If the heat cold-tap-twist cycles will not budge the screw, you may need to drill. This should be a desperate measure only. Is the blade assembly able to be removed from the saw to allow better alignment when drilling?The alignment offered by a drill press is helpful with small screws. Start with the smallest GOOD drill bit you have. Work your way up to the proper size for your easy-out. Here comes the good luck part. More patience, heat, Blaster, taps and more patience will help remove the screw.

As a last resort, If the easy-out stripped the screw, or broke off, use a small drift pin driver to drive out the remnants of the broken easy-out.

As a last resort, continue to drill out the screw,all the way through the screw, till you start to see the threads of the screw. This should allow heat to turn the screw thread remnants bright red, and come loose from the parent metal. A small pick may help to remove the threads. And now all that remains is to run a tap through the holes to clean them up again. Good luck, and nice job with the picture. It really helped to visualize your problem.

What I tried was the following: I noted that unfortunately the securing small screws were flush with the horizonatal surface. I used my Dremel with a 1 1/2" cutting wheel and cut a groove in the rusted screw head. This worked well and I used my flathead screwriver on the screw. I got good traction but the screw would not budge and part of the top of the screw fell off. The saem happened with the second screw. There is total corrosion here. There will have to be drilling. I have a samlll 3 amp drill and I have a larger Bosch drill. I am thinking the smaller drill is appropriate? Any thoughts? Angus

IF you can get everything else that holds these 2 pieces together out and apart, you may be able to break and cut the rest of the screw heads off so the top piece can slide off over the screw shanks (or remove the bottom piece, same thing). Then, after WD40/PB Blasting/heating again, you may be able to grip the shank with a pair of small pliers and back them out. That may be a big IF, but you apparently have half the head broken off already.

What I did was I hit on the rusted screws from below with a hammer and they fell off, so I have liberated these rust encrustred screws. The disadvantage of the approach I used was that there is now 2 grooves on the surface of the metal housing, since the screws were flush to that. The only challenge now I face is if the threads (to receive the screws holding riving plate) are still operable. I will have to see if I can order a new riving blade plus plate plus screws. I was able to cut a 1" wide piece of 12 " porcelain tile. The absence of riving blade was not a problem except that the blade fits into a plastic piece that fits over the blade and picks up the water travelling with the blade, Angus

If you take the remnants of the removed screws to a hardware store, they might be able to identify the size and thread count for you. They might also be able to get new screws for you. The two new grooves can be repaired with some silicone rubber. Will that allow you to return the saw to as new condition, or do you feel that you need the new riving blade? (I am not familiar with that term, so please help with a description)

THANKS FOR THE HELP: This is a small inexpensive saw and was made in China: I bought it from the Tile Shop and I have the manual. It is still working very well. The problem I have is to replace the riving blade that was held in place with the corroded screws. The role of the riving blade is the same as the one on a wood saw i.e. as the tile is cut and moves further back away from the user and keeps the cut tile parts from binding. Also the blade is connectd to a guard that sits over the turning blade and prevents the water and dust from spraying into your face. I am going to see if parts are available from the Tile Shop. If not then I will a have to think about what use I can make of the blade I have. I have found that the tile can be cut very well without the riving blade, but then water plus dust then spay on the user. So perhaps I can cut the blade and reconnect it so that it still holds the guard in such a way that the guard still functions. I will contact the Tile Shop in Minneapolois and see what theyt say. You do not like to throw out a saw, which is working. For sure compents should be greased to prevent such destructive corrosion. Angus

The fact that it's a wet saw makes the non-destructive removal of the screw next to impossible since the water carries the pulverized tile material into the already tight space between the screw and the bed. Combining the dust with the rust makes a bond that won't be easily broken, and drilling won't be easy either since the dust is very abrasive.

If I were doing this I would use a drill press (you can't possibly hold a portable drill steady enough), oversize the hole (assuming there will be sufficient material left), and use Heli-Coil inserts sized to the old screws or larger. Whatever you do put plenty of anti-sieze compound in the hole to spare you this agony next time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert

I have in mind grease as an anti seize compound, but what woudl you suggest? Angus

There are anti seize compounds available that are very good for these applications. They are available in small single use packages at the register on most automotive chain stores. The helicoil is an excellent choice if the female threads can not be salvaged. What ever you do to repair it, after you have finished, apply some silicone rubber to cover the drive portion of the screw. That will keep out the water and grit. Thus allowing the next screw removal to be easier.

BTW, I used a borrowed wet saw this weekend and cursed at it every cut. The rollers would not roll smoothly. A constant twisting on the guide tray to get it to move. Next week. bring your saw over. I have plenty of cold drinks.

Thanks Bob: this wet saw is sawing fine. I just cut a 12" procealin tile yesterday. Trouble is you get water plus tile dust in your face when the guide riveting blade is not attached. My plan is to cut the riveting part away so that am left with a metal bracket (see photo) that I can rettach with screws. I need to get screws. That way the splash guide will be held in place. There was a small metal bracket in place underneath the horizontal surface to secure flat head screws. You can se the holes in the metal of the wet saw and you can see the forsk that the screws go throuhg in the rivet-blade guard component. So how best to get replacement screws? The original ones are disintegrated completly. The parts are not available from the Tile Shop.

Grainger, and MSC if you are here in the states. If not, bring the portion of the saw that the screws recess into to an industrial hardware shop. The shape of the countersunk hole will determine the screw that went in there. from the pictures, I am guessing a #10, or 1/4". If metric 5 or 6 MM.

Yes; I am here in the States. used to be in Hollywod, Fl, but now in Maryland near DC. How about Home Dept? Angus

The Hollywood HD store has 3 good choices for you.

33531, this is a package of 3 that are 10x24x1" Phillips head stainless steel flat head screws.

33631. Same but the thread is 10x32.

44631., Same again but 12x24 thread.

I am willing to buy all of them for you. Just bring that saw down here when I need to cut the next room tiles.

Oil of Wintergreen also works very well for penetrating oil. Apply liberally on rusted screw, tap area with small hammer to allow it to seep into threads, apply more Oil of Wintergreen and let sit overnight. Repeat as required. (You can purchase it at a pharmacy) Another great penetrating oil is KROIL (and AERO KROIL) Both manufactured by KANO Laboratories.

If you have small children, they will probably be asking for a piece of gum, (as mine used to do, "you got gum, I can smell it") so you might prepare for that as well.

I have had good luck with "New" Square screw extractors, but once the "gripping" lands get dull, they're pretty much useless. I also have some round extractors, but never had much luck with them, even when new. The extractors are sized according to screw size being removed and generally have the required drill size required stamped on the extractor being used.

I've always used solid carbide center drills and carbide drill bits for such projects, (local hardware store or e-bay if you're not pressed for time) but the part must be held in a rigid manner to prevent breakage of carbide drill, as they are very brittle and snap easily. As always, wear eye protection when working in shop areas or environments.

Attached is a photo of my "first line of defense". I've heard them called various names, hammer wrench, and impact wrench, among many. It can be used to remove hard to remove screws/bolts by impact action. Also tighten screws that tend to back off, but a little lok-tight or contact cement would probably suffice in such instances. (the impact action greatly increases the torque. On some hard to remove screws, you don't even need to use a hammer, just grip and twist) A socket or screw bit is attached to one end and struck with a hammer on the opposite end. In 95% of the time, it will remove corroded/tight screws. Just use patience if the screw is very rusted. Once it starts to turn, apply penetrating oil and let it sit overnight. Once again use the impact, and if the screw is still VERY tight, apply more penetrating oil, let sit, repeat. (I use the screw bits sold at Home Depot for drywall screw drill/gun. The bits are hardened and last quite well without damage to cross recess profile). If patience is not used, the result will most likely be a sheared off screw. Then you'd have to result to drilling out the broken screw, and re-tapping the hole. It sounds like you may be past this point, but in the future, you may want to try this method first.

Good luck.

That looks a lot like the cheap (~$100) tile saw I have.

All the metal is relatively thin sheet metal so wailing away with a hammer is out.

My "riving" blade also became misaligned, but I was able to bend it back into place with my hands and an adjustable wrench, and center it on the blade with a few careful taps with a hammer to the riving blade.

If the screws have to come out I would simply drill them through and use a nut and bolt to hold the parts back together.

If you have to try and buy parts I suspect the shipping may be half the cost of a new saw (which comes with a new diamond blade that you may be ready for also).

I have no idea how they can sell the entire saw for so little. When I went to buy a new blade it alone was close to $60 for a good quality blade. As the old blade wore out it cut thinner and the cut slot would not clear the riving blade.

it was $100, but replacement 7" blades are available for $20 from HD. The nut and bolt approach will work. Trouble is there is a groove there for the position of the bracket and fitting a bolt would result in the bolt head sticking up. Now this would interfere. Originlly there was flat head screws there.

Any comment? Please look at the photo I posted ~10 minutes ago.

Angus

Try using a couple washers on the bottom, and use pan head machine screws, or flat head (counter sink style).

How about countersunk stainless steel pop rivets???

You can't loosen them to re-adjust. The whole assembly is kind of Mickey Mouse. (Sorry Mickey M, no slur intended).

A backing plate with 2 holes drilled in it may be better than two washers. Nuts with a nylon locking insert may also stop them loosening with vibration.

A backing plate something like this may help instead of washers.

I would use 16 guage metal or heavier.

yes; ther was a plate there along the lines you show. it was also corroded of course.

Use flat head screws with nut on other end http://www.boltdepot.com/images/catalog/machine-screw-slotted-flat.gif

Thank you forthe photo of the machine screw. that is waht I need and it should be supported by a plate below.

Angus

I used flat heads machine screws with a nut on the end: this did work in so much as it held the riving blade in place. It was difficult to fit the screws in place the way I wanted to while maintaining the riving blade in alignment. I judged the alignment of the blade by using a piece of tile. I screwed them into place but could not align the blade at the same time. I needed another pair of hands. I tried a C clamp over the cutting blade and the riving blade.

When I inspected the alignment I thought the blade was not aligned properly. I tried to cut a 12 " tile and I found I was correct. The tile jams on the riving blade.

I do not think I can do this on my own. The riving blade needs to be mounted and aligned with the blade on the saw. You need another person to assist. Looks likme I buy another aw, but this time use grease on the affected parts that are susceptible to corrosion.

Angus

OK, try this. 2 pieces of hard wood 2" tall by 6" long at least 1/2" thick. Drill a hole through the center of the one piece of wood so you are drilling through the 1/2" section. Now line up the second piece, and use the first piece as a guide and drill through the second piece. Now position a bolt that is thin enough to fit between the saw blade, and the riving blade. Use the two pieces of wood clamped between the two blades to align the movable riving blade. Once you have tightened the through bolt securely, the riving blade should be perfectly aligned, and you can now tighten the new flat head screws. Good luck.

Sandwich the riving donger in position as suggested with some vice grips instead of a through bolt, the riving blade should be perfectly aligned, and you can now tighten the new flat head screws. weld it in place.

Welding?

rusty old sheet metal?

removing the screws was initially a problem, so i suspect welding is out of the question.

If nuts and bolts aren't lining up then permanently welding will finish the saw off --- better to buy a new saw, but the riving blade on my new one still had to be adjusted, especially as the blades were replaced slight adjustment had to be made to allow for the different blade thicknesses.

It looked plenty good enough to weld in #16.

Anyway, you said you adjusted yours with a hammer and an adjustable spanner.

OP could squeeze in some rivnuts, that would recover and also strengthen the original utility. These and S/S screws should prevent a repeat of the same mode of dilapidation.

I thought getting showered with cutting slurry and water was normal for a wet saw.

Forget fixing it. It's not like a tile will squeeze in and jam the blade.

Wear a raincoat.

If you don't use a guard the spray goes to the ceiling, across the walls, chips fly and hit you in the face (and eyes if no goggles are worn - and ceramic chips in the eyes really hurt - voice of experience!). I do not recommend using any saw without the proper guards.

The saw lacks power and will stall if slight jamming or side pressure is applied, and will crack out the corners as cuts are finished.

I am planning on buying a new saw because all of my work is at a standstill and I am not sure I can get this one to work again. I like the idea of vice grips or pieces of wood for the alignment of the riving blade.

NEW SAW

Now what should I do to minimize corrosion of the new one. When i install the blade I will grease the threads well yes? Now what else should I do.

ANGUS

I bought different screws; that is ones with bigger heads. I found that helped with securing the riving blade in place. But I was unable to realign this blade. I think it must be bent and cannot be aligned. The only way it can be used is if I could find a way to bend it back to shape. There is no way I can do that, because I cannot tell exacly the natuer of the deformation.

Anothe saw is to be bought,

Angus

Frustrating piece of equipment eh?

I saw one around the $200 mark that appeared to better support the tile and appeared to be more robust. But water and steel (even chromed) always rust on me. The more expensive the faster it appears to rust - just to annoy me.

yes; GW. What you can do is coat the chrome with a polyurethane. What do you think of that?

Angus

Just don't put it on the slides - really messes with clearances.

A good dry off after use and stick it on the hot water heater really helps also.

Clean it after use.

Wash away all the slurry so you don't have a mini wetland/bog sitting there. Blow it off with compressed air or even a hairdryer after rinsing and give it squirt with some WD40 or similar before long term storage.

wd40 is no good for long term storage!

True, but it does dry off any remaining water and keeps the surface oily long enough for heavy rot not to set in. Once tools are dry they don't really spontaneously corrode.

That WD40 does evaporate long term is a good thing as it doesn't lead to greasy tools that soil everything they come into contact with.

I have used some dry moly spray coatings that seemed to work fairly well to prevent rust formation on things that can not be left wet. (sand blowing onto them) Dry the saw as suggested, and then coat with the dry moly spray. One bad side effect though, every brand I have ever used stinks. I mean really smells bad. I spray roll out drawers, sliding linkages, and moving metal parts. The coating seals out moisture, and when the them does have to move, the residue is a lubricant, and helps with the movement.

I was given a small amount of a spray for guns. It dries after several hours, is supposed to contain teflon, and has protected my lathe and milling machine beautifully out on the west coast. The Gun shop is now closed, and other than telling me it was used by the military I have no brand or make. It has a rather strong odor, (but I kind of like it.)

Moly is spray form looks like spray graphite. What color was yours?

Wonder if it is molibdenum sulphide?

Angus

light brown, with cream "sediment" - shake it up and it is a yellow cream colour.

Ok, I know what that is..... Bannana cream pudding.

Sounds like monkey vomit.

Fascinating! wonder what it was. I wonder if I just clean and use chrome polish regularly it will help.

Angus

Can you check and see if it is any one these products. It may be one of these.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

ANGUS

I have no idea. They had it in a 5 gallon pail and poured some of it into a spray bottle for me. The boss was away and about a pint was given to me. It has been pure gold to me.