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Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2007
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What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/04/2012 3:16 AM

When welding a cross country pipeline, welding is stopped by the Inspector when the weather is inclement. In Middle East wind blows continuously in month March-April. A welding tent is used during these months, solution is there. For some reason I do not to engage pipe layer to carry welding tent. My question is what velocity of wind affects the welding arc,cooling rate of welds or physics of completed weld?. API 1004 wording is "Welding shall not be done when the quality of the completed weld would be impaired by the prevailing weather condition,............ or high wind. I want a theoretical answer of wind blow in mile per hour which impairer's the weld quality? Because decision of inclement weather rest with mood of Inspector, which leads to social corruption. To determine quality of weld, X-ray will show physical impureness and not the metallurgical, then what all days production should be cut-off for test. Absurd!

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Guru

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#1

Re: What Velocity of wind impairs weld quality.

09/04/2012 3:57 AM

Where wind velocity exceeds 1 m/sec, flux-cored wires are recommended to be used with windscreens to cope with strict notch toughness requirement.

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Guru

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#2

Re: What Velocity of wind impairs weld quality.

09/04/2012 4:13 AM

you aready know what needs to be done.

how deep can you bury the inspector and do you you think anyone will notice that he's missing.

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Commentator

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#14
In reply to #2

Re: What Velocity of wind impairs weld quality.

09/06/2012 2:16 AM

Bottle of bear.

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Guru

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#3

Re: What Velocity of wind impairs weld quality.

09/04/2012 5:15 AM

For FCAW and GMAW 5 Mill/h Around 8 Km/h. For SMAW 10% to 15% More.

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#4

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/04/2012 7:41 AM

Depends on what type of welding you are doing. It's not so much the welding arc but the shielding gases which are of concerned.

If you are trying to fight shut downs by compiling information collected on the web so you can present it to this inspector. All your going to do is piss him off. He is making a judgement call and your questioning his judgement. All that information he should already know or have access to. No matter what you collect he may have specs that say different.

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#5

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/04/2012 11:16 AM

Some of your original post is not clear. You say tents are used, but in the next sentence you seem to indicate they are not used. Which is it? If the tents effectively block the wind, then welding shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, the welders must have adequate ventilation. This sounds like a pissing match between the welders and the inspector. Also, you might should consider dust and debris the wind might carry into the weld.

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#6

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/05/2012 12:32 AM

Hi Abdul,

I would refer to the standards employed on the job you are doing. For example Australian & New Zealand Standard No 1554 for Structural steel welding states the following:

Part 1: Welding of steel structures

AS/NZS 1554.1:2011

5.4 WELDING UNDER ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS

Welding shall not be carried out when the welding surfaces are wet or during periods of high wind, unless the welder and the work are properly protected.

Welding processes requiring an external gas shield shall not be carried out in a draught or wind speed of more than 10 km/h, unless the welding area is suitably protected, so as to reduce the wind speed to less than 10 km/h, or unless a satisfactory welding procedure is established …

and

Part 6: Welding stainless steels for structural purposes

AS/NZS 1554.6:2012

5.11 WELDING UNDER ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS

Welding shall not be carried out when the welding surfaces are wet. Welding during periods of high wind is only permitted if the welder and their work are properly protected.

Welding processes requiring an external gas shield shall not be carried out in a draught or wind greater than 3 km/h unless the welding area is suitably protected so as to reduce the wind to below 3 km/h or unless a satisfactory welding procedure is established …

Having been an inspector for ~3 decades (much of it involving welding) I would never be confident to enforce a ruling on something like this without some authoritative source like a standard. Therefore, I would challenge the inspector (in the nicest and most professional way) to explain the source of his opinion while showing him your information i.e. your applicable standard or specification or if you (regrettably) don't have one, the above from AS/NZS 1554.

and to Bigg,

I believe that Abdul is saying that he knows he needs a tent but omitted to request the welder to provide/bring one.

Good luck

Malcolm

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#7

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/05/2012 5:15 AM

"I want a theoretical answer of wind blow in mile per hour which impairer's the weld quality"

The way to put the question is wrong. You are asking a theoretical quantitative answer ( "mile per hour" ) giving an fuzzy indication of the output that you are looking for ( "weld quality").

Which aspect of "weld quality" are you referring? Tensile strength, corrosion resistance, ductility... ?

And no indication of how much in significant for you when that parameter decrease. Is it 1% or maybe 10% or either 50%?

For the practical side, you already have some answers regarding usual acceptable wind velocities.

However, if the inspector is asking to protect the weld I will advise you to do it. You are going to loose less time making a tent, than repairing and re-testing a weld. Not to mention that resisting to do it you are going to change the "mood" of the inspector that can lead to other reasons that suddenly appears in his opinion not any more to be accepted.

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Commentator

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/06/2012 1:57 AM

I have used the terminology imprinted in International Standard - API 1104 : Welding of Pipelines and Related Facilities. Code does not give minimum limit of wind blow. Therefore; any answerer in mile per hours does not relate to impairment of Weld Quality. When you complete a weld in windy weather, how one can judge that it is good weld or bad weld without a destructive testing. X-Ray would show physical defects but not the strength.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/06/2012 2:08 AM

You already have the answer: destructive tests. Are you prepared for that?

That's why you must follow the rules and respect all the parameters for special processes.

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Commentator

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/06/2012 2:13 AM

HI Malcolm. Thank for giving me the detail. To convince some one if you can give me the source from where 10 miles comes from, I would be glad. Is it a Thumb Rule from the results based one experience or have some equation?

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/09/2012 6:27 PM

Hi Abdul,

I have quoted (cut and pasted) from 2 Australian and New Zealand standards. There isn't any equation in the standards - I assume that the figures are from experience. Note that the speeds are in km/h and that the figures for steel and SS are different.

Cheers

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Guru

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#8

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/05/2012 9:07 AM

1st the rules that are placed on any welding or other discipline by Governmental or other agency's such as insurance carriers, etc. Are only the minimum guide lines that they want to see. The engineering firm that has the design responsibilities may have a more stringent set of rules to follow. As a (I assume) your a certified welder for the project you were hired for you should know this. Yes! you loose money when your not welding. But, Pipes blowing up or buildings falling down are not the best thing to happen when rules are not followed. And, thats what happens! It may take 10 -20 years but it could happen. Look at California pipe line that blew up and killed so many people.

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Guru

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#9

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/05/2012 11:05 AM

I think arc blow from magnetic fields is more of a problem than wind.

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#10

Re: What Velocity of Wind Impairs Weld Quality?

09/05/2012 10:31 PM

Abdul, get a tent and/or a tarp, some ropes etc, and a anemometer.

Learn how to use the anemometer.

Ask the inspector what his decision criteria is.

Check the windspeed and work accordingly.

Why the recalcitrance mate?

Get on with it.

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