Designing of a Portable Wind Turbine Pro-Engineering

This is the second one of these requests on this forum today.

I just retired from the avionics industry after 29 years, mainly because all the new hires are just like this. And they came from good schools. All I can think is they must all be degree mills.

I'm not seeing that the OP has any curiosity where this interest in any alternative energies, would have been born before entry in engineering school.

Sorry I'm cynical, but I'm so happy I don't have to mentor another one of these.

ignator

I went of NDSU Fargo ND some years ago for a electrical engineering degree and I can assure you that from my experience as a older than average student with real life hands on work experience, well your right.

The vast majority of students are there just to finance the sports programs and make the numbers for the system look good. As far as my class experience relating to electrical engineering goes I asked my adviser one day when I was going to get into the really engineering classes that related to electrical stuff I would need to use as certified electrical engineer.

Basically I was told that what ever company hires me after I graduate will send me to one of their schools of choice to get trained in what they need me to know to be an electrical engineer.

3.5 years and $30+ K to find out that I might get a piece of paper that says I am certified in enough non engineering related fluff to be sent to another school to learn what they need me to know to be an engineer.

I am tcmtech and I am just one of 30+ million clueless students ready to come work at your company and add even more drain your remaining resources because I don't actually know anything about what my degree relates to.

So yea I can see where this guy is coming from and really I wouldn't blame him for it. He doesn't know any better.

TCMTECH:

I graduated from UND in 84 Grand Forks. And I was a late bloomer also, as I went to NDSSS in 75-76 for HVAC, then worked for Trane Co. in LaCrosse, WI as a lab tech in a heat transfer and fans group. I ran a chilled water wind tunnel, testing coils for large commercial HVAC components. I did that for a year, and with my aptitude and the help of a ME, we went from taking 3 weeks to test a coil to 3 days, most of this setup.

I grew up in GF and took everything apart I could get my hands on. My dad is a ME, and was the deputy CE at the GFAFB from 55 to 80. So my world was always fixing broken stuff. I'm no 2 of 8 siblings, and the only one with the science gift. There was not enough science stuff on TV back then, and no internet. So anyone today is truly lucky to have all the sources of learning.

I went into EE as you couldn't look inside the back of a radio or TV and see how it works. And EE school never did teach me to intuitively understand electronics. I did play with digikey stuff in high school with 7400 series stuff, but never did finish the nixie tube clock. I got lucky took a break from EE school in 80, and hit a trade school for electronic instrument repair, best damn thing, learned the intuitive side of analog amplifiers.

What I'm seeing missing is that Dilbert "knack". And getting a BS degree in any engineering field, and then experience is not going to turn that light bulb on in my observation of many kids I mentored over the years. They function, but never can "think outside the box".

I was very well mentored, in the company I just left. But I always was able to take a task, and hit the ground running and make improvements in the product. Mainly testing the damn stuff with parametric methods (I didn't know it was called that at the time). And I don't consider myself a great engineer, I worked with people that always made me feel stupid. Some of it was their experience, some was their special intellect. Now that was when I started in 84, as time moved on, they could not get the same talent, as there is a MAJOR increase in engineers needed, and who wants to live in a sea of corn in the middle of BF IOWA. I like it here (but if I could have found a job in ND I would have stayed).

So the company has moved to diversity, as they can't get talent state side, and must get offshore engineers. Now if you were a gifted engineer, you would be offered a job most likely after your first interview out of school. All I can figure is the "cream of the crop" has been taken, and we are left with "cream of the crap" to come to IOWA, where there is a winter, no mountains or other "fun" things to do. It is a great place to raise kids, good schools, low crime, but not if your a single person looking for a mate.

I just see kids that can't take #4 Phillips screws out of the product without buggering up the head. They don't know which way to turn a left handed screw in the southern hemisphere (my personal joke).

I read your posts, your wide band in your interests, and I bet you were growing up. The problem is this brain wiring is maybe 3% of the population. So now we are stealing engineers from the 3rd world right at a time when they need them for their own boot strap pulling effort.

Yes school only puts theory in your head, nothing practical. But without that theory, you can't understand how stuff works, and either fix it, or make it better.

That's why I'm disappointed in the OP, as he does not have a clue what questions to even ask. "It's the requirements stupid". And it's knowing how to derive them from the problem at hand. After 4 years (or more) this should be easy for anyone with a science thinking brain.

I'm not bragging, or not trying too. So now the company is wanting to move the design to off shore in the India design center, I want no part of transferring 85 years of intellectual property, exporting high paying tech jobs, to a place where my company underpays their local engineer staff, that will leave as soon as they gain experience, and move all the domain knowledge to what will be a competitor. I wouldn't give this to any state side competitor, and sure as hell won't be part of doing it with off shore.

For the OP:

So a portable turbine that's going to be mounted up on a pole, How many watts at what wind speed? How high in the air? How much wind drag will there be? This force will have a moment arm with the length of the tower pole, how will the tower and what ever mounting method support and resist the forces to keep it from blowing down? If it's portable, and one person erects it, how much can it weigh? How big is it for transport in a vehicle? How much does it need to cost if it's going to be mass produced? There's thousands more questions before you start designing, but they all form the design constraints.

The questions should be easy to generate in your head if you see the world as something where every thing is a problem to solve.

Sorry to all if I appear to be a close minded bigot, I try not to be, but with ADD (which is worse with age) and the endorphin pump flow regulation problems it causes in my head, well....I'll have to end this rant now.

As someone who represents the less that 3% with "the knack" believe me I understand far more than most will ever realize.

Relating to having provable and viable work skills plus a good old fashioned farm grown work ethic that doesn't means squat now a days being that most people who make it into management levels are afraid to hire anyone who shows any level of skills greater than theirs and should anyone make it past their screening process they ar quicklly set up and shown the door. Trust me I have been through enough bad work experience relating to crooked dim witted bosses trying to set me up to take the blame for things I didn't do and having to forcefully clear my name to last me a life time.

The #1 reason I retired early was management. And Yup, they keep incompetent project engineers that make them look good.

It's all share holder value, outsourcing engineering to a 3rd world country.

I use the ND joke of "last one to leave please turn out the lights".

I know your having horrible fun with the Bakken boom. My brother in Law is the states attorney for Mckenzie county, it used to be a clean no crime place, maybe 1 murder every 6 years to prosecute. Damn, I wish I had some mineral rights.

ignator

OMG you said it all. I am so glad I will be retiring in a few years. I am sick of the phoney dim witted "bosses and associates" I have been forced to deal with. Yeah, no brag, I was tested in 1968 and was found to be in the 99.9 percentile group, for what it was worth, in mechanical reasoning. But even that doesn't hold a candle to the fact that I love my work, and love to see things done right and well. And I love being proven wrong since it is an excellent way to learn and grow. I recently spent a week on a mold design modification only to have my fellow engineer take it and scrap the entire thing for a different approach. And it WAS better. And we both learned from it. And I bought him lunch and I promised that I would return the favor if the tables were ever turned. He laughed and said I had already been so much help to him in some many ways he was glad to help me for once. But sadly this is the exception not the rule. But I'll take what I can get and try to be a good example by doing the very best that I can each and every day.

can you please scroll down. I did reply about my knowledge on the wind turbine. I didn't specify my details on wind turbine and I did write everything I know and yeah I might know more with time. You can't be "Issac Newton" just from the start. My university haven't been teaching me about wind turbines. It's a "Final Year Project", something you are supposed to do yourself. I just seek some assistance to assure if I am on the right track. Great minds like you sir, would be of great help to me. Regards, Mohammed

Thanks alot for understanding and supporting. Do you have any idea on wind turbines or Pro-E or can you assist me a site or a book that could help me in learning Pro-E.?

about sustainable energy, well if you want me to tell you the history or state to you about the types of turbines or about the advances in technology when it came to turbine or even about how is the latest technology of installing a wind turbine and a solar panel to generate electricity spreading among the people, I surely can go on with alot of pages. I just am sticking to my concept. And sir, in university they just teach you the same way they teach in school. All that matters is what you specialize in and that is going to happen after the courses you choose such as specializing in turbine engineering, petroleum engineering or in the manufacturing. 29 years of experience, I would be seriously honored if I have a part of your time to assist me. Regards, Mohammed

This is what happens when the overhead becomes such that a certain number of souls has to be pushed through each and every year. Salaries are out of site and teaching is not the highest of priorities. I have 42 years at this and I don't see it getting any better before I get set out to pasture.

I am offering some suggestions here.
You say:-

1.Now I got no clue about it.
2.All i know is the final design and that too because of the video I have seen on youtube.

1. Don't you see how this will annoy everyone?
You are a final year student, you must have some clue. Size, weight, power requirement.
If it's just to charge a mobile phone, start there... look at the power requirement of the phone.
On this site you will get out a huge ammount of help, directly proportional to what you put in.
You have put in nothing... yet.

2. Don't you see how this will annoy everyone?
You can't possibly 'know the final design' if your statement 1 was correct!

Ask us a specific question, and you'll get a specific answer. We won't design a product for you.
I will suggest the best way to get started is... to get started! Find a small generator/dynamo designed for a bicylce or somesuch. Or or a DC motor, as they produce a voltage when they are driven round) and do some experiments.

Alternatively start from what you do know about aerodynamics.
Del

Well this is what I know, The size is going to be "PORTABLE" so yeah it won't exceed more than 1.5 m or else it won't be able to fit in the trunk of a vehicle. The power needed to generate is 10W.. and if I use a magnetic motor. I would be able to achieve it plus adding gears would make the working more easier and I might attain 30 W that could be enough to charge a laptop. The wind turbine consists of these parts. Blades (Aerofoil shape recommended) they are gooing to be mounted on a disc. and then there is going to be a shaft connected to the disc. the other end of the shaft will be mounted to a gearing system that would easily help in increasng the rotational speed and then another shaft will be mounted that will be connected to the motor (magnetic motor I prefer). there is going to be a tail that would lead the turbine face the wind. and then a tower to give a height. The tower will be designed the way te antennas of a car look like (becoming larger once you start extending) and then yeah there will be a battery to store the DC, so that it could be used for later on. I have got the dimensions of the blade. My blade would be of 4ft which, when converted to meters would be approximately around 1.21 m. Now all the sites don't say how to calculate the outcome power. I have been doing some reading on some books and I came across the bletz constant and how to derive the output power. I am not asking anyone to design Pro-E. I might add, I have an interest on solar energy, but I was asked to do turbines because solar panels didn't have any mechanical mechanism and I am a mechanical engineering student. We weren't thought Pro-E, but I have been going through the youtube videos and I have learned a bit and I might learn more when I work on it. My main question (which I wrote down in a wrong way) was can you help me in the calculations part or suggest me links or books that could help or write down any if you have any idea about it. I can't make a design if I don't have proper calculations since that wouldn't make any sense. Regards, Mohammed

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[ I have got 8 weeks and I am ready to give it my best shot. ]
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you don't have time - explode your prj. easier(common/integral) to harder(specific/diferentiated)

make a pre-dedline as if you only got 1.5w-ks
to complete the thing (everithing you didn't managed is your weak spot)
- you got 6.5w left meake another pre-DL (plan it's length yourself - leave some emergency spare)

you must show your stuff you conceptually crasp what you need to do

_{it's good if you manage a design you self would like}
what you must manage is the minimum that was described - a PWT even if built from cardboard and scotch

(i never finished my uv.edu - coz i dont like the math. we have - i'm an idealist pig - muhahaa)

Ha, btw, the 1ft = 12 x 1in(=2.54cm) 4ft=4x.0254x12m exact (i sleeped 2y in theorethical physics ... lectures )

((((8 weeks = you're already dead if you even think you can waste a second))))

I just got done with the calculation for the blade and now it is the designing phase left.

Why not go VAWT [vertical axis wind turbine] - the cups are always facing into wind so it doesn't need to be turned. Your talking about a telescopic mast. Each section when extended MUST be locked into place. Most wind turbines are geared. VAWT's have an advantage in that the gearing placed at the bottom of the shaft within the centre line of the unit.

This is detail from a Chinese unit - not my work.

• Commodity Name: 3KW vertical axis wind power generator
• Commodity Number: GT29S0005

Description

• Guy cable tower type: 203 steel pipe
• Number of blades: 10
• Rated rotate speed: 150rpm
• Rated wind speed: 10m/s
• Start up wind speed: 3m/s
• Working wind speed: 3 to 30m/s
• Security wind speed: 50m/s
• Rated power: 3kW
• Maximum power: 3.5kW
• Output voltage: 96 to 120V
• Height of tower: 8m
• Suggestion of match accumulator: 12V, 100Ah, 8 pieces
• Top part weight: 280kg
• Power: 3KW
• Diameter of wind wheel supporting pole: 3.5m
• Length of the blades: 1,800mm
• Output control system charger: controller and inverter

Regards

I agree with all of the posts, so much depends on WHERE you are. There are so many factors that need to be accounted for that a blanket question is wrong. I could make one that would a great deal, even charge an electrical car, but it would have to be in a hurricane.

I am in need of a turbine that could just provide enough electricity to charge a phone or to light a bulb or to the maximum a laptop. My whole concept is based on the country I am residing in. People over here (United Arab Emirates) mostly go for camping (mountains) and they mostly go to the inside of the desert to build up a tent. The most common issue is the cell phone running out of charge and people fighting over whose phone to charge first from the car charger port. The whole plan was to provide free energy and pass on the awareness among people on the advantages of renewable sources of energy since there are no wind turbines found in this country and there is sufficient wind (according to my surveys) to run a turbine and generate electricity. Regards, Mohammed

my blade having 1m radius is capable of generating 45 Watts of power. I think that's more than enough to charge a laptop. I am going to store it in a battery and yeah I am going to make the design simple. I found out the output of power with the aid of blades and rotor... now it is the motor i am confused about. I was planning on using gears like give it some ratio of 4:1 or 16:1 if needed but then I came across the concet of magnetic motors. I am now having a search on magnetic motors and then I would be finalizing the deal or let's say the calculations part. I would then start with the Pro-E and report writing side by side. I think it will take me a maximum of 2 weeks to finish the design and assembly.. A day for each part.. Regards, Mohammed.. P.S: A little bit of motivation is what I need :)

Fix it atop of your vehicle

As i read your explanation ,it seems you only have the ambition but truely speaking you are not sure of what you want to do and how to start.I think you have to research more ,on this or any other project that is originating from you.Dont rely toomuch on youtube ,otherwise you will destroy your ceativity,into too much rilience.LET THE ORIGINAL LION IN YOU ROAR.

A recent design for a small turbine placed the permanent magnets at the end of the blades where the velocity is greatly magnified. This provides much more current than for a shaft-mounted generator. Here is a link to a brief article:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/83344/Designing-of-a-Portable-Wind-Turbine-Pro-Engineering?frmtrk=cr4digest

Please throw some light on "wind turbine with permanent magnets mounted on tip of blades"

The URL that I provided has an explanation. The magnets are mounted on the blade tips because the tips have a much higher velocity than the hub. This means you can get a higher current from the tips with out having to use a transmission.

i can't find your url.. can you please re-add it ?

http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/11/11/if-youre-busy-youre-doing-something-wrong-the-surprisingly-relaxed-lives-of-elite-achievers/

(the elite players spent, on average, 3.5 hours per day engaged in deliberate practice, broken into two sessions)

from my experience (depending of specific job) you cant work effectively ("errorless") more than 2 up to 4 h in a row - the best recovery is good meal and some still and/or stretching after

I am sorry, I just got done with the calculation for the blade.. thanks alot for the link though :)