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PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/18/2013 5:04 PM

I am developing a speed control for a 3 HP compound shunt wound motor. The armature and field both require variable power control as the application requires the utilization of field weakening for short term high speeds. I built my prototype around the IXYS IGBT # IXA60IF1200NA as final drivers, it is a bit overkill but I like the packaging. I used a 800 PRV 30 amp fast recovery diode as a snubber across the field and armature winding's.. All went well on my 1/4 HP test motor but when I tested on the application 3 HP motor the armature recovery diode shorted after 10 minutes, which, in turn, shorted my IGBT.. The PWM frequency was 88 hz as this seems to work well with larger motors.. I usually stick to developing programs and control circuits but I got stuck with this project.. Any Ideas on a better snubber circuit????

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#1

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/18/2013 5:24 PM

Too much energy is dissipated in the diode alone.

You need to add an appropriately sized/rated R and C. The simplified explanation is that the diode directs the excess energy (inductive switching transient) to be stored in the capacitor. The R dissipates this energy during the interval between switching events. If the RC+diode snubber is correctly implemented, all parts should last for years.

I could provide more details and/or design the snubbers for you, but my employee handbook says ALL my ideas & designs (24/7/365) are owned by The Company. You would have to negotiate compensation with Them ;-)

Good luck!

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/19/2013 2:26 PM

Perhaps some help with formulas to produce my own answers? I am old and feeble and need all the help I can find.. Thanks for your input.. John

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/20/2013 6:14 AM

Sorry link in first post didn't work. Try these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snubber
http://ken-gilbert.com/images/pdf/snubber.pdf

or search Google for "rcd snubber design formulas".

Best wishes.

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#2

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/18/2013 5:29 PM

PWM at 88Hz? Did someone with any idea on electronics designed a PWM at 88HZ? you propubly need an external coil larger than the motor for this to work. And used a 1200V IGBT? On what operating voltage? The higher the IGBT sustaining voltage, the larger the Vforward and higher the conduction losses all other things being equal. S.M.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/18/2013 5:53 PM

The motor runs at 300 VDC and has a substantial armature winding, 6 ohms dc.. 40 amp spikes at startup.. Yes, I experimented on a 1/4 HP motor and at higher frequencies losses are very apparent. Normally this motor is best suited with SCR phase angle control but due to the facilities phase imbalance we thought to give PWM a go (no off the shelf drives available with the desired features that could withstand the phase imbalance.) Yes, I am a little out of my forte here, as stated, I have evolved into a programmer but the project is intriguing and has forced me to use some of that schooling from 30 years ago.. Maybe a little too much has been lost over the years... Thanks for the help..

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#3

Re: PWM control for 3 HP DC motor: Snubber help needed

08/18/2013 5:39 PM

My initial guess would be to use a Schottky diode instead of a fast recovery diode. The voltage drop will be lower and thus the energy dissipated by the diode will be less. This will be valid only if the diode steers this returning energy into circuitry to recover this back EMF energy. If the momentary 3 HP of back EMF power (I know, a physics oxymoron) has only wire resistance and diode drop to dissipate these Joules then you will continue to pop these diodes or something else.

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#5

Re: PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/19/2013 6:50 AM

don't forget that a electric engine (any) when is started will consume about 6 times the current from is nominal value, then will happen a different response from a) the test engine, and b) the load engine. that freq. seams funny... is it the main carrier frequency or the PWM modulated pulse frequency?

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#6

Re: PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/19/2013 8:04 AM

I'm not going to address your snubber design, nor your diode at this point, but instead want to make a point about the ruggedness of IGBTs. Normally these guys are incredibly robust. And they can handle excessively-high currents in a short-circuit situation ... for about 10us. The standard approach, which you would do well to adopt, is to employ an IGBT driver with DESAT shut-down capability. VCE desaturation detection means the driver will shutdown for that cycle if the IGBT's VCE(ON) voltage is still greater than about 10 volts, 10us after turn-on (note, the VCE(sat) spec for your part is 2.1V, a typical value for large IGBTs). IGBTs have enough thermal mass to withstand the power dissipation from their maximum current at high voltages for 10us.

As you have seen now, it can be quite nice to have your IGBTs withstand mistreatment without any damage.

An example of an optically-coupled IGBT driver with built-in DESAT is Avago's ACPL-331J. , only $7.37 at Digi-Key. In the drawing above, Figure 33 in the datasheet, there's an extra VCE-voltage detection path to IGBT Q1's collector, with the diode DDESAT in series. Avago also gives you an error feedback pin to let your low-voltage circuits know about the fault.

The ACPL-331J part with its 1.5A gate-drive current is meant for modest-sized IGBTs, they also offer the ACPL-332J with 2.5A drive. For larger IGBTs with lots of gate capacitance, Avago's ACPL-339J had dual outputs so it can be combined with external p- and n-MOSFETs to provide very high gate-drive currents. These can be purchased from Avnet Express, or directly from Avago. (Some will remember that Avago used to be HP / Agilent, but the semiconductor arm was spun off.)

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/19/2013 9:55 AM

Thank you, very good information. I had used an FOD3180 for the driver but see your point, I will work to make these changes.. I still need to resolve my snubber diode issue, I had actually used a 30 amp rated diode but when I reexamine data I see that I may easily see back emf spikes in the 50 amp range when applied across a diode only; I am thinking to just select a new diode, one that will handle higher current.. If you have any input here, it would also be appreciated.. Thank You. John

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/19/2013 6:11 PM

Short high-current pulses are not a problem for large diodes. This is true even if the currents are many times the continuous rated current. Your problem may be that a single diode doesn't make a very good snubber.

When a diode conducts it builds up stored charge. When the current finally drops to zero the diode doesn't turn off, because its stored charge has not yet been removed. All the inductance in your device plus circuit keeps the current flowing, and a reverse voltage builds up across the diode. When its charge is finally depleted we have a reverse voltage and reverse current still flowing. But now the diode turns off suddenly, "snap-off" it's called, and the current in the inductance creates a very large but short fast-rise-time spike, hampered but very little in your case. That's what damages the diode.

The solution is simple enough, a series R + C in parallel. Those are the real snubber components. The R is low enough to avoid excessive voltage drop at the snap-off instant, and the C is large enough to ultimately take the charge without too much voltage increase. Also, the R is high enough and the C small enough not to take too much switching energy. :-)

You can see these events with a scope, but they're very short and you have to know what to trigger on, or you'll miss them.

Well, gotta run, my wife is calling me to dinner.

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#10

Re: PWM Control for 3 HP DC Motor: Snubber Help Needed

08/19/2013 10:31 PM

When the fast recovery diode conducts it momentarily raises the DC Bus voltage way above the safe limit for your IGBTs - even if they are rated at 1200V and running off 300 VDC. You need to add enough Bus capacitance to absorb the back EMF.

Motor controllers always have heaps of capacitors built in for this purpose - as do 3 phase inverters (VFDs).

For 3HP off 300 VDC I would suggest around 1000 to 2000uF if using low ESR electrolytics. 100 to 200uF for Film.

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