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bravo88
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
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NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/07/2013 12:54 AM

In my home country (Malaysia), taxi were fitted with NGV kit to run Natural Gas since a few years ago.

After a number of years, now it is known by taxi drivers that the engines do not last as long as engines running on petrol alone and they are going back to petrol.

I suspect the reason is petrol has some lubricating effect than NG, which being gas, is completely 'dry' . If this is the cause, the possible solution is to add motocycle 2T engine oil to the petrol.

Do you think this will work ? Anyone has knowledge or experience in this ?

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SolarEagle
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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#1

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 5:42 AM

This is probably due to either lack of maintenance or incorrect lubricating oil....tests must be done to determine proper type of engine oil...read this link and try to find someone local who has done these analysis....

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/524/natural-gas-engine-oil-analysis

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bravo88
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#5
In reply to #1

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 10:10 AM

Thanks for the good link. Probably that explains it , nitration problem.

But, if what the article say is true , then NGV car owners need to be a chemist in order to be able to maintain their cars.

But as far as I know, when everyone was touting about the benefit of NG for car, no one was saying the maintenance is so complicated. There wasn't even talk about needing a different engine oil. Everyone was saying , using NG, because it is clean burning , maintenance of engine is lower. Now, this is not the case anymore!

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SolarEagle
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#6
In reply to #5

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 11:53 AM

Well this type of analysis can be done on petrol engines as well....You need to find out what is failing, what is happening.....what does your oil look and smell like when it's changed?....what type of oil are you using?...Is anybody recommending certain types and grades of oil for NG users?....Somebody has probably figured out the problem....

Then again the problem could be with the fueling stations, a problem called oil carryover in which the compressors contaminate the gas with oil which in turn gets into the fuel system causing all sorts of problems....discussed in this link below..

http://www.ngvi.com/Documents/Oil%20Carryover%20%20Symptoms%20Diagnosis%20Prevention_NGVi.pdf

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kramarat
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#2

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 7:47 AM

All that will accomplish, will be to create a lot of smoke, and foul your plugs fairly quickly.

Just a guess, but I'd consider switching to a fully synthetic motor oil. I would also imagine that the engine would have to be tuned differently to burn NG.

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Codemaster
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#3

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 9:36 AM

But if it's on NG, there's no petrol to add motocycle 2T engine oil to.

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bravo88
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#4
In reply to #3

Re: NG engine reliability issue

09/07/2013 10:02 AM

oop! ha ! ha!

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dvmdsc
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Location: In the pool because it is too hot.
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#7

Re: NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/07/2013 8:42 PM

Bravo,

Once, almost hundred years ago I had a Volvo 2 Liter running on NG and the problem I had was that the seats and valves ran too dry and the seats didn't last with the valve also too hot.

I tried with a head lubricating device and it was a little better but still a problem.

The solution came with milling chambers in the cast head and putting rings made of

CrNi Steel in it, simultaneously with replacing the original volvo valves with hollow ones with salt in it.

After all these experiments, I got tired of the volvo and sold it. Surprisingly tha new owner did 250.000 extra kilometers without problems with the NG.

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evaluator
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/07/2013 11:53 PM

Prior to the environmental concerns, gasoline contained tetra ethyl lead, which provided a lubricant for the valves and seats and helped soften the blows of the valve/seat action.

When converting a gas engine to run on propane, it is suggested to change the valves and seats, due to, I suspect, the lack of lubrication properties in propane.
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Kzim
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
#9

Re: NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/08/2013 12:48 AM

What you say makes sense, as new vehicles made for CNG come with hardened valves and pistons (Ford's new F150: http://www.gizmag.com/2014-ford-f-150-cng/28633/) Why, not sure if it's lubricant, higher temps??
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suresh sharma
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Location: Mumbai, India
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#10

Re: NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/08/2013 7:35 AM

I think it has something to do with conversion kit. My friend has Maruti Suzuki car which is supplied by mfr. to suit CNG as fuel, it is working very well since 3 years.

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garyrich2000
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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#11

Re: NG Engine Reliability Issue

09/08/2013 5:14 PM

Back in the 80's the complaints I heard with propane modified vehicles was rapid wear of seals and gaskets. Perhaps this may be an issue with current conversion kits selling the same lame seals. I'd invest some time to learn about any type of polymer which comes into contact (From fuel tank all the way to exhaust) with the fuel and look around for any vendors which may have some new specs. But I'd almost guarantee that the better seals will not be cheap!
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Users who posted comments:

bravo88 (2); Codemaster (1); dvmdsc (1); evaluator (1); garyrich2000 (1); kramarat (1); Kzim (1); SolarEagle (2); suresh sharma (1)

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