Previous in Forum: Electrical   Next in Forum: Need Protection in My System
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 42

Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 5:00 AM

is it really required by new code like IEC to provide an extra circuit breaker for each cable connected in parallel? example I use 8 x 1C x 240 mm2 per phase(8 in R phase, 8 in Y Phase & 8 in B Phase). I already protected it with 3 poles ACB, 1600 amps. our consultant advice me to split the cable per phase into (4 cable per group and provide additional CB rated 830 for each group. the 1600 A and the 830 amps will be connected in series. for each phase I have to add 2 x 830 A MCCB and a total of 6 for 3 phases. I questioned him and he told me that it is the new code requirement. we are in Saudi Arabia and we follow IEC code and our consultant is from Europe. can somebody help me if it is really a new code requirement?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#1

Re: Double cable protection questio

02/21/2014 6:13 AM

The problem is that each of your 240mm2 cables is only rated at 550A at most, so if (due to accident or error) a situation arose where only one of the 4 conductors was connected, the 830A breaker would offer no protection.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
2
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#2

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 9:33 AM

I take it this something like the LV side of a transformer? 8 x 240mm² per phase seems a bit excessive (and wasteful). To protect the equipment then a single 1600A MCCB should be used. With 2 x 830A a fault on one group of cables will throw all the load on to the other group which will most likely trip on O/C.

Get rid of the consultant, it's cheaper and safer.

Personally I'd send for the men in white coats to take him away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 42
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 11:57 AM

it is an MDP supplying a sub Distribution panel 120 meters away from MDP. The MDP has a main ACB rated @2500 amps, 4P, 400 Volts supplying 3 MDP in 3 different location. The design load of the sub MDP we are discussing now is 900 Amps @ 400 V. MY main question is? is it really required by the new code like IEC or BS or NEC? these 3 codes is the only code recognize by our local authority and insurance company w/c insured our equipment.

Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1854
Good Answers: 140
#3

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 11:41 AM

Ask your consultant to provide you with excerpts from the IEC standard he is refering to.

Parallel conductors are meant to provide an alternative to a single conductor of the required size.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 42
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 11:47 AM

That is the first question I asked him. But his answer is the latest revision and he cant remember the iec number and cenelec number. thank you and when he visit here again I will show him your reply.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#6

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/21/2014 8:18 PM

I can't follow any rational logic to doing something like that.

Given that if the multiconductor service has a dedicated CB for each run of cable it would make no sense simply do to that in order to turn off the line multiple independent breakers would not only have to be tripped but be interlocked so that if one trips they all go off line together.

I think your consultant is misunderstanding a code or is just blowing smoke up your backside to make himself feel important.

Setting up such a system would be a huge waste of main panel space and financial cost.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 351
Good Answers: 22
#7

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/22/2014 4:09 PM

The codes do address one problem in parallel cables and circuit breakers. The CB should be set to trip on short circuit (not load) for only one of the cables. There is also a section that indicates that the use of parallel cables should be only used for voltage drop purposes, not for load carrying. Some individuals might interpret that to indicate that the breaker should be set for the load capacity of only one cable, but the use of 2 or more cables in parallel is done frequently assuming that both cables are carrying 1/2 of the load for 2 in parallel, etc. I can see that in some jurisdictions an inspector might give a problem but I think the consultant is simply inexperienced. However do note that the short circuit settings and calculations should be done for a single cable. That is usually no problem when 1-4 cables are in parallel. When more are used some people use CT's on each cable or groups of cable. One way to provide load protection for each cable is to put separate CT's on each cable and separate relays to limit the load, but I have never seen that done except by Utilities.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 406
Good Answers: 3
#8

Re: Double Cable Protection Question

02/22/2014 5:46 PM

This makes no sense! How are you going to connect the 1600 amp breaker to the 830 amp breakers? How are you going to reestablish the 1600 amps on the other end? Like others have said, get someone more qualified to help you!

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

4wsilver (1); Dalton (2); JohnDG (1); Munster (1); North of 60 (1); tcmtech (1); TonyS (1)

Previous in Forum: Electrical   Next in Forum: Need Protection in My System

Advertisement