Where are the jobs?

I'm afraid this a world-wide catch 22.

Whatever job you go for you are either Over Qualified or Under Experienced!

One way is to start in a relatively low level job (don't shout too loud about your qualifications) If you are good you will be able to progress in that company.

Even if you don't progress, at least you will gain some vital experience for your CV.

I had to start with a job in a Hi-Fi and electronics store when I first left University! But I still learned a lot from the radio Hams and hobbyists who worked there!

We all have to start somewhere.

Good luck

Del

Thanks,

You are the best!

The first thing you need to do is change your approach. If you believe their are no jobs in engineering, then you've failed before you've even started. What you should be asking yourself is "what am I doing wrong that I can't find a job in mechanical engineering?"

The very first thing you should accept is that the world isn't fair. You will be denied jobs for reasons that are beyond your control. It's ok to get angry about this, but you mustn't allow it to stop you. There's an expression in America called "roll with the punches", It means that when bad things come along you just have to move past them and not let them stop you. This has to be your outlook while looking for jobs. Expect 20 rejections for every job offer you get. It's just how it is.

When I'm in a job hunt, I try to identify at least 25 to 50 places to apply to. I apply to jobs I think I'm under qualified for, over qualified for, and jobs I'm a perfect fit for. These jobs can be found on Monster.com, or by looking at company websites.

Make sure you prepare an excellent resume. No spelling errors. Emphasize the information that shows your strengths and deemphasize those things that are your weaknesses on your resume. Then, once it is done, send it to at least 25 companies. Then wait two weeks.

After two weeks, call each company and ask if they have received your resume. Ask when you could expect to hear back from them regarding an interview. Some will say that your not qualified or that the job has been filled right then and there, at that point you thank them and ask them to keep your resume on file in case another position opens up.

You'll find if you keep checking back every two weeks or so (never wait less than a week, that seems desperate) you'll get a few phone interviews. The key to a phone interview is listening. Answer only what they ask. Don't try to tell them things unless it's directly related to what they ask. Be honest and patient. If they go well, they will set up an on site interview.

When you go to a on site interview (for which the company you are applying to should pay the expenses, don't compromise on this), dress professionally and listen. You will be interviewed for an entire day. Be polite to everyone regardless if they are polite to you. Answer their questions as honestly and completely as possible. Before you leave, ask them when you can expect to hear from them regarding the position.

Continue to follow up with other companies during this process. You should go on at least 4 on site interviews and 7 or 8 telephone interviews.

Finally after several interviews you should get an offer. Never accept immediately, but tell them that you need a small amount of time to consider. Contact anyone else you've interviewed with and tell them that you've been made an offer and ask if they have any interest in you. Sometimes you may get multiple offers.

Anyway, that's a brief description of how to get a job. If it seems unrealistic to you, then you won't get a job. This is what it takes. It's a lot of work to get hired. Don't wait for companies to come to you, go after jobs. Be aggressive and persistent and in the end you'll be much better off. Good Luck.

Hi Roger,

I was just reading your comments and it is really one the best advice that one could get. Couldn't pass your comment without appreciating it.

Also have to say that is a very good description of the way to get a job.

I studied Applied Physics at uni and while the course was heavily weighted towards engineering because the word engineering isn't in the title it is very hard to get a job in this field.

The way I did it was when I found out about a new industry starting in my area I went in person and asked the managing director if there were any positions free. The answer I got was to hand in my CV (resume for the Americans) and they would contact me. I decided to go against the grain and write the CV by hand. Sure enough I got no phone call so two weeks after I applied I phoned them again. Still no reply. So I phoned again in a week. You can see where this is going. After many phone calls I was offered a job as a labourer which I took then over the last 5 years worked up to site engineer.

The managing director told me one day that not only was it the fact I kept phoning and made a personal appearance but because my CV was the only one out of about 50 which was written by hand. The professionals in the recruitment world don't advise hand written CV's now but out of the 50 or so bland word documents sitting on the bosses desk mine was very easy to see and caught his attention enough to put it in the small pile of possible canditates instead of being used as toilet paper.

Now with experience and more qualifications I'm looking to go to Queens University in Belfast (Northern Ireland) to get a degree in mechanical engineering. I'm a nuts and bolts guy who but now I would like to get into the world of professional engineering. Experience and qualifications is what it's all about.

Hope that is some inspiration for anybody out there who thinks unless you have the exact qualifications and experience you can't do anything.

Nice story...

I've been on both ends of the recruitment process...

You are so right about a CV which stands out.

I had to read through a pile of CVs from graduates for a mechanical design eng'....none had done anything!

So when I saw one for a guy who was a DJ as a hobby, had built some of his own equipment and maintained his own motorbike he got onto the interview list.(and eventually the job!)

The point of this...put down anything you've done which is vaguely related to engineering even if it is a hobby...it show that you are enthusiastic about the subject and have some practical experience.

If you put down TV cinema, resteraunts as hobbies you are in the bin!

My comment won't be of much help, but I want to share my experience. I am twenty eight years old and I live in Uruguay (South America) with my mother and siblings. I work at the family's company as a technical salesman, but I have been looking for another job for seven years, to gain experience in mechanical engineering and improve my earnings.

I must say I have not graduated yet. My university (University of the Republic of Uruguay, aka. UdelaR) might very well be the worst university in Latin America. Back in 1997, when I started, it was the only one in the country offering degrees in Mechanical Engineering. The 10+ time to graduate is actually the standard here.

However, it doesn't matter, as companies hire students the same way they hire professionals. During these seven years, other students won those jobs. And believe me when I say that I applied to every possible job.

I worried a lot myself because nobody hired me in seven years. I first thought it was because I am a writer and artists are seen as the-wrong-stuff here. So I erased any track of my artistic activity. It didn't work either. Then I studied the procedures of job interviews, the human resources selection techniques, the psychological profiles that were most required, everything. But that wasn't working.

Finally, one day, while waiting for an interview at an airline company, I had the chance to take a look at my own psychlogical profile. They had just left it on a table, maybe forgotten. It was perfect. The company's shrink was appointing me as 'perfect for the job'. Guess what! They didn't hire me.

After some nervous breakdowns, I have came to realize that it could just be a problem of probabilities. I guess I am in the tail of the Gauss distribution of 'Time to get a job'.

So, don't be hard with yourself.

What I would do if I were in Canada is joining the Army. They are almost forced to hire you, if you have the age and fitness. Even if you have to join as a simple soldier, you could get promoted easily. And then you will end in the engineering jobs you want.

I don't do that here because the Uruguayan Armed Forces don't pay even enough to live decently and because the age limit to enter is 23.

Go ask some recruiter to check if I said anything wrong. I guess that would be the best option for you: getting someone who MUST hire you (any of the Armed Forces)

Joining the army is a ridiculous suggestion. Don't even consider it, especially from someone who has never served in an army themselves.

The key to getting a job is hard work and persistence. If you go into it with the attitude your going to fail, you will because you will quit at the first rejection. I'm not saying it will be easy, or even fair, because it won't. In fact I can promise you it will be difficult and unfair, but as long as you keep sending out those resumes, keep taking action rather than paralysis through analysis, you'll get a job you can be proud of.

Roger

I would like to know why joining the Army is a ridiculous suggestion. I come from a military family (most of them in the Navy) and I think I know pretty much about the subject. However, it seems like you know something I don't. Please, explain it to me.

Joining a military should be to serve your country, not to get a job. No matter what the recruiter tells you. Yours was not a ridiculous suggestion, just not the most perfect answer for a guy who just wants to use his training to get a decent job to raise his family.

I spent 20 years in the service (in Canada), and I learned the hard way that it was not about ME (grin!) In fact, the "job" is less than 10 percent of what your promotion evaluations are all about, the rest of it is all about deportment, attitude, and other "military stuff". The work you do can sometimes get more important than your family, or even your own safety, and may often not be at all within your discipline. (The commonest complaint you hear is "I didn't sign up to do this!")

That being said, I would be proud to serve along side men who show the kind of initiative that both you and the original poster have displayed.

Thanks, Yusef, for your answer. I really liked it.

I just want to tell you something. I don't know in Canada, but here in Uruguay the "engineering jobs" are the ones with 10% engineering. A Maintenance Engineer is a guy with greasy hands tightening nuts and bolts, welding things, etc. I mean, you do the job that a technician is supposed to do, because he is better trained for that. A Production Engineer doesn't optimize anything, you just send production orders and make some very little Supply Management. About Mechanical Design, well, among the hundreds of engineers I know, only one works in design, at CCC (a cardiostimulators manufacturer) Most factories here (would be considered mere workshops in developed countries) hire one engineer to manage production, supplies, maintenance and maybe sales too. Obviously, they don't tell you that when they interview you, but everybody knows anyway. And nothing is really related to what you taught in college.

For two years I was the student member of the Career Board of Mechanical Engineering. That means that one teacher, one professional and me evaluated the career, the curriculums of the students asking to graduate, the calendar of examinations, etc. (all done with very very limited political power) That's why I know almost everyone in industry. I remember one report of a few years ago where industry owners were asked on what they needed from engineers. The main answers were "English language" and "computer sciences". You had to go to the bottom of the list to find something related to engineering. I think it was welding. In my opinion, the situation of the industry here in general isn't very different from what you describe as the situation in the Army.

About safety: I have been myself installing/repairing air-pumps, at nine metres height, no safety belt, no helmet, no gloves, with spanners in my hands, standing on one leg. That kind of situations are the usual thing here. Argue and you are out, pathetic troublemaker.

Just some global culture stuff. I guess my expectations are much lower than yours.

Thanks for your last comment.

Sure. Ten years ago joining the army in the US seemed like a good idea. The US had been in a war with major casualties since Vietnam. Why not go into the army and then go to college or graduate school on the GI Bill (Government pays for school). Ten years later 4000 US troops have died in Afghanistan and Iraq while 25,000 have been injured. 25,000.

If you join the Army, you should assume you will have to fight, whether or not you think it's likely you will fight is irrelevant because things can change suddenly and the next thing you know your in a foreign country where people are trying to kill you. Joining the Army to build a resume is a bad idea because there are a ton of better ways to improve your resume without having to risk your life. Try going to school and getting a Masters in another discipline for instance.

To be clear, I have a high regard for the soldiers that serve my country. To get up everyday and do their job when they know that they may be killed is the definition of valor. Anybody can be brave for a moment, these soldiers are brave everyday. I just don't think you take on the type of responsibility simply build a resume. That just seems misguided.

Have you evaluated exactly where the jobs are? Most of the networking companies in the Valley have kind of stopped doing their own sheet metal and are farming it out to either fab houses (they're the ones the companies pay to put everything together) or to really large mechanical design companies. These are the ones that make sure that when everything comes together, there isn't a screw in the way or a bad tolerance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't go to the company known for some device, find out who fabs the device for them, and apply there.

Hope this helps - Good Luck!!!

Don't take offense. I'm not always delicate in my communications but the U.S. is still a very prejudiced country in many places. If you are dark skinned, then you will likely experience the same type of prejudice that Black Americans experience. If you are intelligent enough to complete an engineering curriculum, then that can actually make it worse because some people are even more intimidated by a Black (African, African-American) man with intelligence. I suppose it reminds them that they aren't the superiors they like to believe they are.

So, I would focus on the more ethnically diverse areas of the country which are centered around technology and have a high educational level, high import level of foreign professionals, and a low level of racial tension. Seattle area (Microsoft) comes to mind. I worked for a gentleman from Kenya while there. He fit right into the international climate. Also, possibly government technical areas like Nasa in Houston, Nasa outside New Orleans, Austin, Texas is progressive though some parts Texas very prejudiced like Louisiana. Silicon Valley in San Jose. I suspect you should go for as high tech as possible. The more difficult the discipline, the more foreign professionals they're likely to have working there and the less you'll appear or feel out of place. If I think of anything else, I'll post as what I've listed so far is more computer/electronic than mechanical, though I suspect they employ all engineering disciplines to some degree. Didn't mean to make race an issue but having worked for the gentleman from Kenya, I can understand that a highly educated African man can create a mental conflict in some less educated Americans.

It is true that ethnicity is still an issue in some parts of America. To deny this would make one a fool. However, come to Silicon Valley, my friend! If everyone that had other than white skin was to disappear, the Valley would be empty!

Not only Black, but looking like a Muslim (i.e. being semithic, as most nordafricans) could be a bigger problem in these days.

If you suspect that could be the reason it might be good to talk to fellow immigrants and trying to find support in the community.

I don`t know Africans, but Italian and Spanish (not Hispanic) communities are very supportive everywhere. Maybe a 'paisano' from your country can give you a job.

Most people in the Valley are hip enough to tell a Sikh from a Muslim. And Muslims are not really discriminated against here, either. I used to manage a woman that went to her car five times a day to pray. Of course, it was always parked toward the East. Also, I know of several other companies that hire Muslims. It's really kind of wide open here. The Valley wants engineers.

Looks like mechanical engineering is still relatively strong in IT sector which, I suspect, is comprised of a more global group of professionals than some of the other engineering fields. You might also ask some of your closer friends what, if anything, stands out about you that might create tension in an employer. It may be your accent is heavy and difficult to understand which creates a communications barrier forcing some to work harder to understand you. It may be your too good at what you do and people would feel guilty placing you in their menial job position. The more honest feedback you get from people friendly but not too close to you, the more likely you are to discover, if any exist, what parts of your total professional presence should be tweaked to optimize your interpersonal successes. Some people can skate on nothing but charm, so education isn't the only factor.

Also, I don't know Canada at all so can't say how it compares to U.S. but I think there are alot of jobs out there for engineers in U.S. Links above listed 3000 plus for mechanical engineers and this is just one search site. Others are:

Using the standard industrial classification code for mechanical engineering, you can discover a tremendous amount of information at this website if you take the time to learn it's resources. Not really a job search site so much as an evaluation tool for determining what, where, when to optimize employment possibilities. Monster link is huge job search site. About link is a reputable website for obtaining information on just about anything.

http://www.bls.gov/

http://www.monster.com/

http://jobsearch.about.com/od/joblistings/a/bestjobsearch.htm

http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=300&LOCATION_OPTION=2&AREA_CODES=&ZIPCODE=&RADIUS=64.37376&COUNTRY=1525&METRO_AREA=33.78715899%2C-84.39164034&TRAVEL=0&SORTSPEC=0&FRMT=0&DAYSBACK=30&NUM_PER_PAGE=30&N=1525+0&FREE_TEXT=mechanical+engineer&Ntx=mode+matchall&x=27&y=14

http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=300&LOCATION_OPTION=2&AREA_CODES=&ZIPCODE=&RADIUS=64.37376&COUNTRY=1525&METRO_AREA=33.78715899%2C-84.39164034&TRAVEL=0&SORTSPEC=0&FRMT=0&DAYSBACK=30&NUM_PER_PAGE=30&N=1525+0&FREE_TEXT=masters+mechanical+engineer&Ntx=mode+matchall

http://www.bls.gov/soc/soc_d0a0.htm

I can understand your frustration. I have had the opposite situation which is experience without the degree. It can be difficult to even get your resume read.

Please don't take offense at this suggestion. Work on your English spelling and grammar. If your cover letter is written like this forum thread, you may have problems getting anyone to read your resume. Communication is very important in engineering. I have found that someone who does not say it right will likely not do it right either. I am sure that many potential employers feel the same way. I have seen personnel managers toss the resumes of highly qualified people because they did not like the writing skills of the applicant.

This is an international forum that just happens to be expressed in English. Taking into consideration that I am no better at communicating in my second language (Spanish) than many of the international participants to this forum are at English I tend to be patient with others as I would want them to be with me. I made the suggestion above, not to be offensive, but in the hope that it may help you with your job search. You can't prove how good you are unless you get the job.

Here is an example of a lesson I learned about communication. As the manager of the prototyping studio of an industrial design company I had hired some engineers. Two were from India and one was from Indonesia. These guys were fresh out of school, but very bright. I was having some problems getting directions followed correctly and also getting answers that were wrong or didn't make sense. I discovered that I was the problem. I was using words that anyone who grew up in Southern California would understand, but someone who learned English by the book in another country would consider as slang. I also discovered that I was combining words such as "did you" into one word: "diju". It was interesting that when I removed the slang from my speech and enunciated my words that the guys became better at following directions.

Don't give up. It will get better for you. What you are going through is called "paying your dues"

This is past my usual time to "lurk", but I felt a need to make a comment or two here. First, my compliments to Roger for an exemplary approach to a search for employment. Second, I agree with all who have commented here that attitude and persistence is everything. My contribution to this thread is to comment on gaining certification. I have practiced in the field of architecture for 29 years, the first half of that career as non-licensed and the second as licensed. There is a world of difference in the prospects for employment, including self-employment. I would add that licensed mechanical engineers can out earn architects by at least 20 percent. Simply because there are fewer of them and they are in demand. Professional Engineer my friend. Go for it and don't let anything stand in your way... especially yourself.

God Bless you... and keep us posted.

A large persentage of companies hire through agencies so register with every agency you can find. You never have to pay an agency to find you a job. The company pays the agency. There are also agencies that hire people out on contract for short term work, that is one way to get experience and if the company likes you they might take you on full time.

Don't give up. Looking for work is a full time job, as it was said before apply for jobs that you think you are not really qualified for, companies ask for a lot of qualifications that they don't need just to get the best person.

forget engineering

By joining the Foreign Legion?

Become yet another Estate Agent...?

Hey we could really use some more Lawyers...or HR people...?

Ah! the perfect answer.....

Become a 'Recruitment Consultant' ! Brilliant or wot?

(mostly wot!)

Apply at Timberland Equipment in Woodstock Ontario.

They need good engineering people.

There has been a lot of good advice and information given, the only thing constructive I can add is the advice not to disclose your GPA of 75%. It may sound harsh but the message potential employers read is that you are wrong 25% of the time, not a good thing for engineers or project managers.

Good fortunes