Tesla turbine pressure drop

Leo, There's probably SOMETHING in all of your numerous notes - go back and check them! Sir Isaac Newton (sorry - I couldn't resist!!) Seriously, I don't even know what a Tesla Turbine IS. Sorry! Mike

Hi Mike

Sorry, lost all my codes in the Renaissance age.

Just for fun go to Google and check Tesla Turbine.

You will be amazedd, not only with the turbine but with all his works.

He invented among other stuff the AC and AC generators and built the ones in Niagara Falls.

Regards

Leo

Hi Leo,

I was with Mikey on this one. I too had never heard of a Tesla turbine. I took your lead and did a little reading about it. Fascinating!

Have you got one or are you building/designing one, what?

Regards,

-John

Even though the Tesla turbine of 1909 has never really been used commercially because far better turbine technology quickly emerged, the turbine nevertheless has generated a great deal of interest the past few years.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aun cuando la turbina de Tesla de 1909 nunca se ha utilizado comercialmente porque emergió una tecnología mejor rápidamente, la turbina sin embargo ha generado mucho interés últimamente.

Tesla Turbine Pump

On October 21st, 1909, Nikola Tesla (an inventor of many ingenious items) filed a patent for a pump which uses smooth rotating disks inside a volute casing.

Tesla's novel method of "fluid propulsion" was based on two basic principals of physics: "adhesion and viscosity".

In the patent (which he received May 6th, 1913) Tesla began by pointing out the benefits of a smooth transition of energy:

"In the practical application of mechanical power based on the use of fluid as the vehicle of energy, it has been demonstrated that, in order to attain the highest economy, the changes in velocity and direction of movement of the fluid should be as gradual as possible."

His device accomplishes this by harnessing the "internal forces opposing molecular separation" and "the shock of the fluid against the asperities of the solid substance". (Asperities are surface deformities, which even the smoothest disk will have.)

Images & quotes from U.S. patent #1,061,142, May 6th, 1913. The pump disks are keyed to a single shaft (a dark rod in the top drawing from the patent). The inlets for the fluid are shown in light blue in the upper drawing.

Each disk has holes cut in the center "preferably curved, as shown". We have highlighted the holes in light blue in the lower drawing.

The patent states that to reduce clogging, a solid disk or disks ("each in its own casing") can be used. Also, the pump can be staged for increased pressure, using the output of one disk as the input to the next, in series, on one shaft.

With a rotational force applied to the shaft, rotating the keyed disks, the fluid rotates as well and moves towards the outer edge of the disks. In the lower drawing the fluid spirals out in a counter-clockwise direction.

The fluid might complete one or more revolutions, or less than a revolution, before reaching the outer edges of the disks, depending on the viscosity of the fluid, the speed of rotation, the width between the disks, and other factors.

Here we have highlighted in red, the exit path of the fluid through the volute, after it has spiralled out from the center as the disks rotate. In the bottom drawing the fluid and the disks all rotate in a counterclockwise direction.

According to Tesla's patent:

"In general, the spacing [of the disks] should be such that the entire mass of the fluid, before leaving the runner [the disks], is accelerated to a nearly uniform velocity, not much below the periphery of the disks under normal working conditions and almost equal to it when the outlet is closed and the particles move in concentric circles."

The author once saw a delightful working model of this pump. It was made out of stiff paper and tape.

Copies of patents are available from the U.S. Patent office for a small fee.

Thnaks a lot Grage and all others.

Yeas I am building a Tesla turbine, and will inform you of te outcome in terms of pressure drop, that has to do with fluid viscosity, adesion pressure tixothropy and subsequent disk spacing among other.

The algorithm is under devcelopment but I was looking for some horizon of sensitivity.

Any how, thanks to all and I am glad that some of you could take contact with this amazing figure.

Gracias amigo Grage y no me creo que la turbina Tesla haya dicho todo lo que tiene que decir

Leo

There are 2 factors i consider as important :

- the gas/fluid entry between the discs since if it is not well thought it generates turbulence which reduces the efficiency

- the distance between the discs in order to obtain as far as possible the optimal velocity profile since the friction (assuming a newton type fluid) is proportional to the velocity gradient.

I started by curiosity to make a simple model and if you give the diameters when i shall have the time i will look at the model equations as i mentioned under assumption of an incompressible fluid with a newton behaviour.

"Can anyone tell me how to calculate a tesla turbine pressure drop with compressed air."

Build one and obtain the test data for yourself. Perhaps someone here may have built one and collected such data. Otherwise read on.

Even with a detailed dimensioned drawing it would be an iffy guesstimate at best.

The Tesla Turbine is an interesting device to build but of rather limited practical use as better devices are available commercially.

Interesting but of doubtful or limited value.

It is many times too expensive to build a full scale model and determine empirically the different parameters. But it is not possible to use a under scale model if there is not at least a simple physically correct equation of the process. Of course a computation could be only a rough "guesstimate" but using for instance modern simulation methods as flow simulation softs it becomes possible to make a "virtual" model and have a lot of reference values which are not exactly what practice will show but give already trends. Any way experimental approaches are time and money eaters if they are not supported by other methods.

With respect to the Tesla Turbine its possible based on a series of assumption to build a simple mathematical model and estimate an order of magnitude for the pressure losses due to friction and acceleration of the fluid between the discs. The model to be simple should consider a not compressible fluid which is valid only for small pressure drops if the fluid is a gas.

I think that Nikola Tesla might have some test data but it would be difficult to get a hold

of him. You can try using a ouija board

... or you may want to make a home made test Tesla Turbine ...but keep in mind that there are many variables. When talking about a Tesla Turbine there have been many versions with:

Different diameter disks
different number of disks
different thickness of disks,
different spacing between disks
different disk materials,
different housing design etc...

The best information that I have found to make a test Turbine is at the following link:

http://staff.washington.edu/sbtroy/turbine/turbine.html

I hope this helps

I take it back ... there is some data:

I found this in another thread- answer by mswarden:

mswarden Participant Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3

# 18 Re: Tesla Turbine 04/04/2007 1:12 PM

The Tesla turbine is known as the bladeless turbine or multiple-disk turbine. There is some data on the device. Please see: 1. Warren Rice, "An Analytical and Experimental Investigation of multiple-Disk Turbines", Journal of Engineering for Power, January 1965 pp 29-36. There is a book by Balje that discusses the turbine and the performance potential. It was published in 1981. The reference is: 2. Balje, O. E. 1981. Turbomachines. John Wiley & Sons, New York Reference 1 built the device and measured performance. The potential performance in terms of efficiency of the turbine is low because the device uses friction to drive the disks. Most applications require a higher efficiency.