Previous in Forum: Study Materials for FE/EIT   Next in Forum: Extraction Fan Causing Building Roof Implosion?
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6

Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/11/2014 4:35 PM

Hello, I'm working on the design of a retaining wall, on which a steel hall will be mounted. The retaining wall is not beneath the whole perimeter of the building, but only for part of the columns, as the terrain is inclined at a certain place. As in my country's code is not clarified the situation with a hall, building, etc. above a retaining wall and I'm not yet experienced with this, I really hope I'll find some help here. What I do now is to make calculations of the wall for 2 stages: 1) stage 1 - only the wall and the backfill - before installation of the slab and the hall - here everything is clear for me - I'm making the stability checks for sliding and overturning of the wall, check for the soil stresses and calculating the necessary reinforcement of the wall; 2) stage 2 - installing the slab and the mounting the hall (it will be pinned to the foundation). So for this stage the main question is should I check the wall for sliding and overturning as it is already restrained by the slab? Can I assume that the horizontal force from the hall goes directly in the slab? Than for calculation of the soil stresses I should take only the vertical loads. And what about the at rest load from the backfill - I suppose this horizontal loading can not goes also in the slab, can it? I hope I explained it well. Thanks a lot for all the replies in advance! I really have not any info in our code here.. See fast sketch here: http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/713/7658713A.jpg Regards

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: restrained retaining wall
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glen Mills, PA.
Posts: 2385
Good Answers: 114
#1

Re: Restrained retaining wall design

10/11/2014 5:22 PM

All of your suggestions have been correct somewhere, but not all at once. Some of them mean that others cannot be used simultaneously. It is not possible to select the best combination at this distance.

You need to find a mentor with whom you can cover the possibilities including the site characteristics.

__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#2

Re: Restrained retaining wall design

10/11/2014 5:28 PM

you're scaring me, this seems far over your skills abilities

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ''but, don't we get PAID to ask questions?...''
Posts: 1661
Good Answers: 17
#3

Re: Restrained retaining wall design

10/11/2014 7:01 PM

I'm more scared of someone who would approve such a scheme...

__________________
''illigitimi non carborundum...''(i.e.: don't let the fatherless (self-deluding,sabotaging, long-term-memory-impaired, knee-jerking, cheap-shotting, mono-syllabic, self-annointed, shadow-lurking, back-biting, off-topic-inquisitors) grind you down...)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#4

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/11/2014 10:21 PM

I think there is too much that you don't know.

And, too much that you haven't explained to the forum.

Forces involved, local soil conditions and climate among other things, too numerous to go into here from the other side of the world.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#13
In reply to #4

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 11:46 AM

"Forces involved, local soil conditions and climate among other things, too numerous to go into here from the other side of the world."

For example, the wall falling off the bottom of the world and hitting the giant turtle that is holding up the world in the eye.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#5

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/11/2014 10:48 PM

Your problem is related to the lateral transmission of vertical pressures in the backfill stuff.

It depends on its composition and geometry (i.e. ratio between loaded surface and lateral surface) since internal friction and plasticity play an important role.

Similar problems occur in the design of rubber components.

It would be SAFE for you to get a support from a specialized person since the above mentioned factors are very variable. I would not say that it is over your capability as was written but out of your personal experience field and a helping hand is required.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#6

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 3:12 AM

1. There is nothing stopping you utilising a suitable standard for this build. There are plenty to choose from. And they all suit most countries.

2. Your drawing shows no measurements for the retaining wall buttress's.

3. No mention of rebar.

4. No mention of building anchoring for the steel columns.

5. No measurement of foundation depth or height of above ground foundation.

6. No mention of soil type and its stability. Clay, rock, flood plain (which it looks like it is designed for).

7. How are you going to compact the backfill and to what compaction ratio?

There is too much information missing in your idea for anyone to make a statement that it will, could, perhaps, work.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
#7

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 3:51 AM

Hello all, First thanks for all of your reply. The sketch I added was really fast, even the moment diagram is opposite, I see it now. I have precise auto cad drawing, but it is not on this computer, as i'm on a holiday now. I didn't giv any numbers, as my intention was not to ask you to calculate it for myself, not at all. But to have a better picture, I'll give some data: Height of the wall - 1,180 m Toe - 0,40 m Heel - 0,70 m thickness of stem and footing - 0,40 m Maximum reactions from the steel hall - V=92 kN, H=22 kN from G+S (snow) Steel frames at each 3,80 m. Soil type - clay Top of the wall is at zero level, also the slab. Level outside the wall is at -1.00 m. I don't ask for calculations, my question was if the slab at zero level could be taken as a restrain. So the wall is not cantilever anymore, and than part of the horizontal loading could go in the slab as a diaphragm. Of course in the corner between wall and slab there will be rebar. Of course the wall itself there will be rebar. And it depends on that if the wall is cantilevered or could be considered as restrained... Regards,

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 4:05 AM

Simple answer is No. What is stopping the whole restraining wall from moving out-wards in a clay soil?

What is going to happen when the clay dries out and what will happen on the inverse when it gets too wet?

You might want to consider piling and cast a plinth on the piles. It is not just the building on the foundation, you will have items within the building adding weight to the floor so your verticle loading is not just a metal clad building exerting downward pressure.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#15
In reply to #8

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/14/2014 11:50 AM

'The retaining wall is not beneath the whole perimeter of the building, but only for part of the columns,'

I had to come back and reread what you stated. Sure fire way to have it all fall over if you are doing this. You need piling below the steel columns or a retaining wall all around to offer support and no slippage. Re consider your design carefully.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 39
Good Answers: 1
#16
In reply to #8

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/14/2014 1:05 PM

From looking at your sketch i would think IQ has the right idea. Insitu piles, with a cast in place pile cap around the perimeter of the structure leaving a rebate to take precast Hollowcore slabs. Structure is tied, pockets can be designed into the ring beam to take the steel columns or strengthened if base plating and the hollowcore slabs will make life easier for services installation.

Will have additional costs in terms of materials & plant however construction time on site should be reduced. That is assuming you initial retaining walls were RC.

__________________
Juries scare me. I don't want to put my faith in 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#9

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 5:13 AM

Why are you insistent on back filling? Why not just make the hall floor slab of prestressed reinforced concrete beams and create an undercroft? You still need adequate foundations but they are much easier to calculate without side forces generated by the fill.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
#10

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 5:53 AM

IQ, What I want to avoid is transmitting the horizontal reaction force from the hall to the bottom of the wall foot, because than the eccentricity will become way bigger (M/N> B/6). So it is enough for me to know that at least the H reaction force from the steel frame could go in the slab. The rest is a matter of calculation of the wall as unrestrained, cantilever and added additional ONLY vertical load from the steel frame as a reaction. The earth pressure stays. I also will take into account that on the slab there will be some additional loading, which will cause additional earth pressure for the wall. jhhassociates, For this client it is not an option. Thank you for your proposal!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glen Mills, PA.
Posts: 2385
Good Answers: 114
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 7:38 AM

There are various problems associated with using the slab to tie the foundations, I prefer to put tie beams at the building column lines, they can be part of the slab or, and I prefer, just under with a compressible material between them.

__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/12/2014 8:03 AM
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley)
Posts: 4362
Good Answers: 179
#14

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

10/14/2014 10:33 AM

You're way over you head on this one. Hire a Licensed Structural Engineer to design the wall.

We cannot offer assistance half way around the world without knowing all the conditions pertaining to the design, nor should we.

SMH...

__________________
"Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ''but, don't we get PAID to ask questions?...''
Posts: 1661
Good Answers: 17
#17

Re: Restrained Retaining Wall Design

09/30/2015 8:26 PM

What does the geotech. report say about the supporting soil, etc. ?

You have already had a fully qualified Geotechnical Engineering firm thoroughly investigate and evaluate the structural capacity of the relevant soil variables in a properly reviewed and approved report, haven't you?...

__________________
''illigitimi non carborundum...''(i.e.: don't let the fatherless (self-deluding,sabotaging, long-term-memory-impaired, knee-jerking, cheap-shotting, mono-syllabic, self-annointed, shadow-lurking, back-biting, off-topic-inquisitors) grind you down...)
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 17 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Buttons (1); CaptMoosie (1); CvSi (2); Fredski (2); IQ (3); jhhassociates (1); lyn (1); MR. Guest (2); nick name (1); passingtongreen (2); StandardsGuy (1)

Previous in Forum: Study Materials for FE/EIT   Next in Forum: Extraction Fan Causing Building Roof Implosion?

Advertisement