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Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 6:31 AM

Hello guys, can an electromagnetic and radio frequency wave be contained in a vessel? How and why not?

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#1

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 6:54 AM

Yes... wave guide, magnetron etc...

Del

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#2

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 6:59 AM

"How and why not?" Don't you mean "If so, how? If not, why not?"

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:28 AM

Exactly

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#4

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:28 AM

Do you own a microwave oven?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:33 AM

Yap, but my point is if i turn my microwave on, can I put some of those microwaves on a vessel and preserved it (in wave form and energy) if i like?

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#6
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:36 AM

It will all degrade to heat, Boss.

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#7
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:38 AM

That is the big challenge, what about insulating the vessel, Murphy?

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#8
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:52 AM

I don't want to sound rude, but with the types of questions you have been asking you would do really well to take a basic physics class at a community college. That is, if your determination matches your curiosity. You will need a good command of algebra for the course. Calculus is a plus, but not required for introductory classes.

I think that would help give you a good grounding for understanding nature. I would also suggest paying particular attention to the thermodynamics part of the course.

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#9
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:53 AM

Funny dude

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#11
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:56 AM

Well, was trying to be serious and helpful. I am not sure what you are trying to do, so maybe I should retract my original post?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:59 AM

Like so many things in life...you have to admit you have a problem before you will seek help! There is no help for some!

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#13
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:02 AM

I am scrutinizing whatever it is on, no questions asks definitely no learning. Well, at least do your rebut by answering how and why not?

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#48
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:25 PM

You wrote, "I am scrutinizing whatever it is on..."

On what? What is the subject of your discussion here?

You wrote, "Well, at least do your rebut by answering how and why not?"

How or why not, what? Exactly what is your claim? I am lost.

I thought the subject was about what I perceived as your fundamental grasp of physics. <== again, no insult intended. You just seemed to ask some questions that should have been laid to rest in any basic physics class.

What you originally suggested with regard to trapping a microwave energy smacked of perpetual motion. Do you see the flaw here?

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#60
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 9:31 AM

But space accommodates perpetual motion.

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#64
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 10:08 AM

What does that have to do with the price of ginseng in Taipei?

It is not space that prevents perpetual motion.

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#66
In reply to #60

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/07/2014 1:30 PM

If you mean the thing that keeps the planets and galaxys all moving around, that ain't perpetual motion, its gravity (among other things).

Ain't nothing for free I reckon.

Anyone else's keyboard acting up, mine seems to be stuck on American dag nam it?

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#14
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:06 AM

I don't think that was levity

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:15 AM

Well, whatever it is Fred, but let say we keep track to the matter. If I throw an irrelevant question and flawed, well at least anyone could disprove if it is flawed so readers might know and learned from it.

But if answers getting somewhat personal recommendation one in which inclined to inferiority and superiority- it does not help any at all, it becomes a fallacy to any argument.

How would you know, the one asking questions just want to explore a subject dig and drive deeper logic and reasoning.

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#16
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:33 AM

I think this is another one of those computer generated text! Makes no sense at all!

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#23
In reply to #16

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:41 AM

Looking at #20, I think you are right.

P.S. What is Brgy. Cumawas? Place? Name? Different planet? Nonsense?

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#31
In reply to #23

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 10:21 AM

barangay Cumwas - Philippines (Google is my friend ).

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#62
In reply to #31

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 9:55 AM

Don't forget to drop by the place, if you might come to visit, Lol.

It's one of the convenience living in the province.

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#65
In reply to #62

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 10:43 AM

How's the weather? Stay safe.

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#67
In reply to #65

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/25/2014 10:45 AM

Thanks for your concerns John, the storm changed direction to another province and quite not severe.

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#34
In reply to #16

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 10:59 AM

I played along for a little while here but for once I think an AP has hit the nail on the head. This seems more like computer generated text than anything else. The OP replies almost agree with the comments made. Particularly when the OP is challenged for an explanation for an inexact catch phrase response.

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#36
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 11:42 AM

If so, I reckon it just failed the Turing test!

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#39
In reply to #34

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 12:09 PM
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#43
In reply to #34

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 1:47 PM

Come on now, you have been here long enough to know just how strange the responses from a single individual can be. Contradictory one post, helpful the next, or angry or just plain bizarre before going back to helpful.

Computer generated responses are much easier to see http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/98369/LED-Products-are-100-Household-Lighting-Applications.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:48 AM

its an open forum, they even let me stick around! I wouldn't necessarily suggest you attempt to befriend the members here but choosing to agitate would be a mistake. AH is a pretty sharp guy, I don't speak for anyone other than myself but I think his intent was more genuine than you took it.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:02 AM

I also knew he was, but would it be necessary to put something like that. Something like we have to do arguments with credentials while hide ourselves in aliases.

If whoever I was and I am so as any of us here, does not matter, what matters most are truths, logic and reasoning.

If Science is founded by credentials, it would belong only to nobles. Well, nobles don't own all the logic and reasoning in the universe. Adversaries did own some and without it, there be no Science at all.

The worst would ever happen to Science Society is when what happens to Galileo Galilei's idea.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:38 AM

AH was not questioning your credentials - didn't even mention them, that I saw, and I don't think anyone else was, either. He was making a constructive suggestion, based on your recent questions to the forum.

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#24
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:42 AM

But would you consider it a wise answer John? Would it suffice the question? Yes, No?

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#25
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:48 AM

What does wisdom have to do with this?

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#30
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 10:13 AM

Well, first, his comment was not an answer to the post.

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#49
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 9:45 PM

I was suggesting a wise answer might be to get a better education on the fundamentals of physics and thermodynamics, first.

I contend that if you were to do that you would find great satisfaction to the questions you are now posing. So, the answer is - yes!

At which point you would find that you would be prepared to ask much better and more meaningful questions that would lead you to much higher levels of understanding and even better questions - and so on ad infinitum - you would be well on the road toward wisdom.

Not once have I tried to do anything that would discourage you or circumvent you from that path of knowledge. Quite the contrary, I only wanted you to get there all the more efficiently. Your curiosity is a good thing.

However, you just keep frustrating my own and everyone else's efforts to help you by taking everything as an ad hominem attack.

You could do better to take some of these replies as gifts if you reflect on them long enough.

That's just my opinion and I could be wrong, but that is the way it appears to me and I suspect some others here as well.

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#63
In reply to #49

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 10:06 AM

What an awesome guy you are, yes, I will. I would not accept that I am totally uneducated on the topic, just investigating further to get the most out of it. I bet, some of you here are into hardcore astrophysics and quantum mechanics and I respect that. Gauging from your responses, some potential hardcore scientist are here, wow and it is always an honor conversing to some wholesome minds and talents. I could not get those from any other forum on the world wide web .

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#42
In reply to #15

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 1:44 PM

Congratulations, whatever you are.

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#44
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 2:02 PM

The Dunning-Kruger effect.

Now that is effect that runs rampant on this blog. I must remember that term.

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#45
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 2:16 PM

Yes, and insofar as what we're seeing on this blog, Ehrlinger, et al, nailed it:

"Poor performers do not learn from feedback suggesting a need to improve."

The lemon? From the wiki:

The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, as lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras.

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#61
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/06/2014 9:43 AM

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics- Richard Feynan, does not seem fit to your standing.

I always respected my electrical engineering colleague who spent last 4 years being a third year. His motto was " the more you study, is the more you don't know."

An ionized gas had only one state to go. I guess you know for sure. No comment

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#46
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 2:47 PM

Do you mean we misunderestimated him?

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#47
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 3:51 PM

...and we underestimated your ability to use a "Bushism"!

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#56
In reply to #42

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/04/2014 6:26 AM

funny

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#19
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:55 AM

I agree with AH.

This sudden barrage of irrelevant, nonsensical questions you are throwing at the forum leads me to think that you are trying to help a fifth grader with their homework, and need help yourself.

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#17
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 8:44 AM

Well put -seconded.

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#41
In reply to #5

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 1:24 PM

"... if i turn my microwave on, can I put some of those microwaves on a vessel and preserved it (in wave form and energy) if i like?"

Yes but you're limited to only three, so choose wisely.

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#10

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave be contained

12/02/2014 7:54 AM

How do you know the light in the refrigerator goes off when you close the door?

You can "contain" transmitted energy within a vessel as long as the transmitter is transmitting. e.g. microwave oven. As soon as you turn the transmitter off, the transmitted energy is no longer there.

Hook a generator up to a motor running a generator and you will contain that energy just as well!

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#21

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 9:26 AM

Yes and no. What answer do you want? Also what will you do with this answer?

The microwave oven has already been cited here. There are also anechoic RF chambers built for antenna and reflectivity testing. At the same time quantum theory explains the weird phenomena of tunneling that permits photons to tunnel through a barrier.

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#27
In reply to #21

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:01 AM

"What will you do with the answers?"

I am interested in energy conversion, specially electromagnetic wave in nature.

I am interested in light wave-particle duality.

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#32
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:21 AM

Then you really should get some formalized schooling. I'm not trying to be dismissive. The foundation work to be able to properly discuss this is vast and complicated in their own ways. For example, Maxwell's equations and the Schodinger probability wave equations should be considered prerequisites to this discussion. To be able to apply Maxwell's equations a working knowledge of multidimensional Calculus is required. To grasp Schodinger probabilities one should understand random process analysis more than what is needed to sit at a casino game.

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#33
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:42 AM

speaking of probability, there is seems no absolute truth at all. It is hooked up with either or or neither nor.

You're right it's a casino game.

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#50
In reply to #21

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 1:29 AM

Photon 'tunneling' is actually pretty easy to demonstrate using a laser pointer and two, good-quality roof prisms.

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#26

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:00 AM

FFS

Read #1

Yes you can maintain it if you take you containment vessel down to absolte zero and don't extract any energy from it. Mind there would thus be no way of knowing there was any radiation in there CF My mate Schrodinger.

If you really want to contain EM radiation in a box...

Put a torch (flashlight) in a box. (Turn it on first)

Del

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:08 AM

Really Del That sounds so simple.

But have we achieved absolute zero Kelvin now?

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 10:12 AM

in order to get (close) to absolute zero would I be better off using nitrogen or argon?

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#51
In reply to #29

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 1:55 AM

rubidium atoms are popular. The current record is 100 pK (picoKelvins).

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#57
In reply to #29

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/05/2014 1:26 PM

This is helium right?

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#58
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/05/2014 6:43 PM

No, this is Helium left. All its fundamental particles have the opposite spin to Helium right.

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#59
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/05/2014 9:02 PM

That's strange, I thought it was charmed.

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#40
In reply to #26

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 1:08 PM

But, but.....................................if you leave the torch (flashlight) turned off, won't the EM radiation stay in the batteries then?

Sorry, I just skimmed the first part of your post before.

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#35

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 11:13 AM

Shine some light into a metal container, then close the lid quickly.

Did the light come out when you shined it into the container?

Now, open the container in a dark room. What have you got?

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 11:44 AM

Brilliant!

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#38
In reply to #35

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/02/2014 12:01 PM

The light is still there but, when it contact the walls of the container it gets reflected with a longer wavelength. What you would see (if there was enough to detect) would be radiation closer to the infra red region.

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#53
In reply to #38

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 6:23 AM

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

That would imply that the energy of those photons is being only *partially absorbed* per photon per reflection, the rest re-emitted at progressively lower energies/longer wavelengths. If that's the way it works, then I could shift green laser light to red simply by reflecting off suitable mirrors, but that's not what happens. It doesn't change colour, it gets *dimmer.* Those unreflected photons are being swallowed whole and converted straight to heat/lattice vibrations/phonons.

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#54
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 6:30 AM

Kidding a bit but some energy is reflected &, if it has to pass through some material in the process, it will be slowed down. In reality your green/red laser would decay long before any change was detectable. It all ends up as heat which is simply the 'red' end of the electromagnetic spectrum.

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#55
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Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 6:32 AM

Yes.

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#52

Re: Can Electromagnetic Wave Be Contained

12/03/2014 2:41 AM

Why is this thread in the 'Aerospace' section? This thread has nothing to do with aerospace.

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