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Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/06/2007 12:07 PM

I am designing a Nitrogen powered vehicle that will be computer controled and have a twin airvane/turbine motors. Self contained carbon fibre tanks with onboard Nitrogen recharge capabilities.. Anyone have an interest in working with me. I am a retired aerospace design engineer with almost 50 years pneumatic experience.

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Commentator

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#1

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/06/2007 12:23 PM

Hi Airmotor guy! I am interested in working with you in financing any prototypes and protecting the intellectual property of it.

Let me see what you have in mind. Keep me posted of your progress. My email address is without spaces 'seshu kanuri at gmail dot com'

Thanks

Seshu Kanuri

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/06/2007 12:32 PM

I will contact you and we can discuss your participation in our project. I live in upstate NY. We have a working air motor and have been building and working with nitrogen powered airtools for many years. We are doing a CAD model of our concept for installing into a 2007 VW Beetle. We estimate a driving distance of 1000 miles and estimated speeds up to 150 mph depending on the power distribution thru the transaxiual power loads. 4 Nitrogen tanks make up almost 800 cfm of capacity with delivery psi @ 75 to 110. We have been developing this system for over 5 years to get to a practial economical design and manufacturing standpoint.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/06/2007 12:38 PM

1000 Miles? You gottabe kidding me. Can you run such distance at just 110 Psi? If it is more than that, no one wants to be sitting on top of a ticking time bomb.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/06/2007 12:59 PM

I can assure you this is "NO TIME BOMB" - I have designed the system to be safe and economically sound. The design uses a percentage of the exhaust to recharge the system thru a Nitrogen regenerator and air booster system that will take 40 psi and boost to 4200 psi to refill the carbon fibre (and another high pressure material) tanks safely and quickly. There has been a tremendious amount of design engineering with safety being the TOP priority for this system. The design criteria was to develope 5 to 6 speed levels and distance runs of 600 to 1000 miles. I have designed and fabricated industrial impactools with 3-1/2" sq. drives that develope 80,000 ft.lbs of torque @ 100 psi. Tested and proven. Used in refineries and power generation plants. Worked as a Sr. Pneumatic Design Engineer consultant for several major air tool companies - so I have extensive experience with compressed air / Nitrogen powered air motors and systems. I hope that puts your mind at ease.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 4:26 AM

I doubt you will make this work as stated. Efficiency will be very low as carnot rules and this is just another heat engine, albeit with the hot nitrogen at compression cooled and stored to be expanded later. An efficient air motor turbine will discharge at ambient pressure and have no residual energy for re compession. A piston or volume changed expansion engine will have some gas above ambient to recharge a system, but just a few % recharge is possible.

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 4:43 PM

Sir..

Your comments have no justification or substance. From your comments I have to assume you have no experience with the compressed gas or nitrogen powered anything. What is your expertise to back up your comments.

Thanks, I welcome any and all comments pro or con !!

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 10:57 AM

"We have a working air motor and have been building and working with nitrogen powered airtools for many years."

Why is nitrogen superior to air?

"We estimate a driving distance of 1000 miles and estimated speeds up to 150 mph depending on the power distribution thru the transaxiual power loads. 4 Nitrogen tanks make up almost 800 cfm of capacity with delivery psi @ 75 to 110."

Why is the VW Beetle limited to only 1,000 miles?

"Is there a problem in Denmark?"

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 4:49 PM

Nitrogen is much more stable than compressed air. Nitrogen is used in extreem climates to stabilize tire pressures such as in extreem hot and cold. The VW Beetle is an excellent size to prototypr our system in and the 1000 miles is just a goal for us. We expect to travel more, but for now we want to establish the 1000 miles as a reachable goal. This will also let us look at the system proformance and make any design changes we may need to improve our unit.

Thank you for your questios and comments..

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 10:14 AM

Hi, Like many engineers I have looked at this before being attracted
to the 700 times expansion possiblities of nitrogen. (if correct)
So, I would be interested in working with you if, from your very well
infomed position, this is really viable?

Please email details to jt (at) swopzone.com, many thanks.

jt.

http://www.fastfreeads.com

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#13
In reply to #6

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 4:59 PM

Hi JT..

Thank you for your comments.. Our design is very viable and has been looked at from the safety aspect first and foremost ! Economical manufacturing is the second thing that has to be important or the public will not buy it. As Nitrogen is very stable and our design encompasses an onboard recharge system - we have an excellent engineering design project that will or could become the next best thing since sliced bread, so as to speak.. Jt my e-mail address is ata@stny.rr.com if you want to contact me direct. How do you see yourself working with us in what capacity.. We are always looking for experienced engineering input. Please advise me as to your involvement with us..

Thanks for your comments..

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Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 11:22 AM

yes I am also having since lastdecade to do it but how can i cooperate with you as I am from india and working as mechanic in National Institute of Technology in Western india SURAT city of Gujarat state.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 5:05 PM

I am not sure how we can be of assistance to you or work with you. Please e-mail me at ata@stny.rr.com and we will see if we can assist you or provide you help in any way. We are always interested in working with any technological universities or colleges.

Thank you for your comments..

Ken

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Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 11:58 AM

How do you calculate the amount of energy stored in a compressed gas?

What thermodynamic cycle represents a piston air motor?

What thermodynamic cycle represents a turbine air motor?

What are typical maximum efficiencies of piston and turbine air motors?

How does torque and efficiency vary with piston or turbine motor speed?

What advantages does compressed nitrogen offer oer compressed air?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 3:48 PM

"Is there a problem in Denmark?" From prior post #7.

"THERE IS a problem in Denmark"

There have been NO supporting data nor explanations so far.

Why the expense to provide 'nitrogen to power torque wrenches?

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#48
In reply to #10

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 7:48 PM

Shoot, I been powering air wrenches with 78% nitrogen for years. It works OK if you leave it at that and don't go trying to ultrapurify it.

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 5:12 PM

Thank you for your comments.. You have several questions that would breach our confidential design engineering information intellectual property. I would like to answer you but can not because of this. We have spent thousands of design engineering hours and countless amounts of funds to get to where we are now. If you have a genuine interest and would be willing to sign several confidential and non-disclosure documents, we may talk about it. What is your reason for asking such design detailed data. If you wish contact me at ata@stny.rr.com and we will discuss the matter.

Thank you for your interest and comments..

Ken

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Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #15

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 7:12 PM

None of my questions were intended to be specific to your technology.

Let me expand on the first question: If you have 1 pound of nitrogen at 60 degrees F and 4400 psi, what is the maximum amount (100% efficiency) of energy that can be extracted when the nitrogen is expanded to atmospheric pressure?

Thank you in advance for your patience in explaining the basic physics of this process.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 7:35 PM

First off - the answer to your question would tell you basically how we have come up with the calculations for the expansion energy used to power our system. We only use atmosphere exhaust when starting our system and when we stop our system. We have spent months doing calculations and using FEA CAD programs to extract usable data so we have a very viable and usable system. It appears to me that you would not ask if you did not already know the answer to your question. My educational background exceeds a doctorate degree in two disciplines with a NASA, Lockheed Astronautic and JPL background in engineering experience. Not to be a superior wise-ass, why do you try so hard to prove something wrong by showing your somewhat superior knowledge of physics - I am retired and have put all that overwhelming crap behind me. I just enjoy the basics of design engineering and if it benefits mankind - so be it and I will be a happy man. If I only build one nitrogen system powered vehicle that I can drive and have fun with - again, I will be a happy man and continue to enjoy designing, engineering and life until I take the long dirt nap. If I thought you were not jerking my chain, I would share my design data and maybe you would have some real informational input.. Other than that - please join CR4 like the rest of us and enjoy the ride and wonderful conversations between a lot of great people on CR4. Nuff said !!

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Anonymous Poster
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 7:47 PM

I am not trying to "prove" anything. I am trying to understand the basic physics of the process of expanding a gas from one condition to another condition to produce power, assuming that the process is 100% efficient.

If you don't have the patience to explain this to me, I can only hope that someone else will.

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Anonymous Poster
#20
In reply to #18

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 8:32 PM

What a wonderful example of obfuscation!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS, right?

If you can't convince them with cogency then baffle them with BS.

You can't confuse people with "half-truths" unless you have at least half of a truth to start with!...

IF you really had/have anything worthwhile it would already be covered by preliminary patent papers, else you wouldn't be "blowing smoke" lest you make a slip of the tongue as it were.

Only reasonable conclusion is that the whole of your posts are nothing but smoke and bull squeezin's!

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 8:59 PM

I remain unbaffled, undazzled and unconvinced by the potential of compressed air for driving a VW for 1000 miles with 800 liters of N2 at 4000 PSI.

You will be able to get about 30-40% of the energy contained in the compressed gas as motive power.

Similarly 30-40% of the energy needed to compress the gas will be it's remaining potential energy to run the VW later. A carnot specialist can nail this down a bit better.

These two in series mean an inherent low efficiency of the system that can never be overcome no matter what $$ is piled into it.

Compressed air is a convenient means to move power around a factory that is wasteful, but has no leakage problems or toxicity problems

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 10:00 PM

Aurizon..

Our N2 powered system is a closed system with a N2 re-generator, N2 booster system that takes exhaust N2 and re-boosts to 4200psi which fills my outboard tanks. The entire system is computer controlled. N2 offers a very stable gas and will operate our patented airvane/turbine combo motors that provide power to the transmission and the drive train. The system also has an onboard compressor system that operates the brakes and other functions as well as an onboard generator for electrical power. this entire N2 powered system is almost self sufficient - but nothing has been proven to have perpetual motion in any power system. Our design is 96% efficient and we are trying for 98% if possible. Please don't hesitate to ask more about the system. I will try to explain as much as I can without giving away the farm.

Thanks for your comments..

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 10:39 PM

You have cascaded carnot limits running with heat of compression wasted and heat of expansion reducing the pressure. Your system has zero hope of success. All money invested will go to feed and water and booze and buy nice cars for the guys behind this scam. At the end of the day the obstructions thrown up by "Big Oil" will defeat the project on the very edge of success, and the principals will scurry off, leaving little left of the $$ except worthless paper in other front companies..(the usual way they siphon off $$ into "investments", that later turn out to be errors of judgement, no crime in that...

I HAVE SPOKEN

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 9:48 PM

Mr. Guest !! What you think and comment about is no consequence to me or any of the other CR4 members.. My system is covered by two US provisional patents. You apparently have no or limited knowledge about compressed air systems. No matter anyway, I have and will continue to have some very excellent conversations with those at CR4 that believe in a new concept that has some merit. I really am sorry I tripped your switch Mr. Guest, maybe you should stick to a subject you can BS your way thru, I am really sorry you have an axe to grind. Continue to learn those $50 words so as to impress your fiends and I will continue to answer the rest of my CR4 colleagues questions and be as helpful as possible. Just out of curiosity, what is your profession and educational background - I think everyone would like to know why you chose to hammer my design info...

With best regards Mr. Guest..

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Anonymous Poster
#25
In reply to #22

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 11:20 PM

airmotorguy007:

I am the Guest that asked the questions in posts #9, 17, and 19. I am not the Guest that made the comments in post #20.

Aurizon:

Perhaps you can help me understand the physics (thermodynamics?) here. Although airmotorguy007 seems quite happy if his concept benefits mankind, he doesn't seem to want to share any his "educational background that exceeds a doctorate degree in two disciplines."

You mentioned the Carnot cycle. From what I can determine on the Internet, the maximum energy released by expanding a gas from pressure P1 and volume V1 to P2 and V2 is (P1-P2)(V2-V1).

If P1=4400 psi, V1=1 ft^3, P2=15 psi, and V2=1x4400/15=293 ft^3

then energy released = (4400-15)(293-1) = 1,280,000 psi*ft^3 = 184x10^6 ft-lb

= 184x10^6 ft-lb/738 ft-lb/kJ = .249x10^6 kJ = 249 MJ

1 US gallon of gasoline = 130 MJ so 1 ft^3 of gas at 4400 psi = 249/130 = 1.9 US gal of gasoline.

If a VW Beetle gets 30 mpg on the highway and the engine is only 30% efficient, then an air engine that was 100% efficient would get 100 mpg of gasoline or 190 miles per cubid foot of gas at 4400 psi.

Am I on the right track here?

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 12:07 AM

seems to be partly right. Air engines are far from 100% efficient, being in the 30% range. You would have to chart the expansion from P1T1 to P2T2 to see what you can extract. Signifacand cooling due to expansion will recude the energy available.

There is no doubt you can make an air powered VW. As to beating the power/weight of gasoline, I doubt it.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 12:44 AM

I assumed that air engines would use the cooling of expansion to extract heat from ambient air, probably in several stages. Airmotorguy mentioned 150 psi working pressure, so they probably regulate the tank pressure (4400 psi max) down to 150 psi, then use a heat exchanger to warm the gas back to ambient temperature before feeding it into the air motor. Possibly even some warming between stages of the air motor as shown at:

http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 4:01 AM

Why use ambient air, when there is the heat to be taken from the newly re-compressed gas? - higher temperature difference = more efficiency.

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/07/2007 5:13 PM

Please see reply no 15 for your information !!

Thanks

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#29

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 8:14 AM

The work necessary to power the airvane/turbine would be done where? What are the benefits as the energy for that work would be powered by what, oil, coal, or solar? I have years experience in re-filling SCUBA tanks via compressor and realize how much work it takes to compress gas. Are you attempting propetual motion? You mention onboard Nitrogen recharge capabilities. If this is the case, I would be interested in working with you. mr._kim_christensen@hotmail.com

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Anonymous Poster
#30

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 2:12 PM

airmotorguy007

After considerable searching I have finally found The Ultimate Unending Supply of High Pressure Compressed Air hidden in the archives of the internet. Known as the NEAL TANK it supplies all kinds of compressed air for any purpose you please.

You can dispense with all of the problems pointed out by others in above posts. Install a Neal Tank in the vehicle of your choice. Do not be limited by a rinky dink system nor a cramped undersize VW. Drive a Ford Expedition, or a Cadillac Escalade or whatever you please!

More information will be posted as it becomes available.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 7:02 PM

Thank you I will check it out. We have contracted with a company that fabricates carbon fibre, alum and Kevlar tanks that are ultra hi-pressure and will hold 110 Cu.Ft. @ 4200 psi. I appreciate your research and comments. I will also see if I can power a Expedition or Escalade - more prestigious vehicle.

Thanks again, Ken

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/08/2007 11:35 PM

That Neill tank seems to have found a way to use the ambient energy in a new and creative way. Gotta look closely to get head around the concept, but it has promise...

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#33

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/09/2007 1:37 AM

I am verymuch interested in your project. However though I am a mechanical engineer I cannot claim any expertise in pneumatics. I was involved in a conventional diesel- electric hybrid vehicle project some time back and from then on I have been looking at alternatives to the storage batteries which was the weak point of our design. However I did not seriously consider compressed air as an alternative as it seems to waste half the energy of compression in the form of lost heat. Now that you say it can be done with Nitrogen, my curiosity is aroused once again. This Nitrogen re-charging which you mention is I suppose using regenerative braking.

I wish I could work with you.

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#34

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/14/2007 9:10 AM

Hi airmotorguy.

Did you study the air car made by Guy Negre in France? the link is:

http://www.theaircar.com/

He claims almost 2000km autonomy achieved with a gas+compressed air system. How can you compete with that?

Regards

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Anonymous Poster
#35

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/14/2007 10:31 AM

airmotorguy007

At last an image of the neal tank! Took a lot of effort to locate this much and wheedle a copy to post here.

An explanation of the components and their interrelationship is being sought.

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/14/2007 12:53 PM

I have studied the Neal Tank system and it has a lot of merit for sure. My N2 powered system takes the Neal tank system to a much higher technological level. With todays new technical advances in "air and N2 compression systems and packages" you can achieve a more streamlined and condensed total system package - which translates to longer distance traveled, higher storage capacity and a greater range of speeds for low thru ultra high range of speed and power. I am very fortunate to have some engineering friends, associates and colleagues that hold professorships in some major engineering universities and have access to excellent FEA and design engineering computer programs who have helped me with my design studies and calculations. These associates have helped me prove my N2 powered system in many diversified applications especially doing the climate research studies in ultra hot and ultra cold conditions. One person such as myself cannot take a design such as the N2 powered vehicle system through to fruition without help from his colleagues and associates and people that believe in the workability of the system. I have looked at and studied the French design and several other supposed top design ideas for "air powered cars".. I have not asked for investment funds from anyone, and have had several inquires as to investing in my N2 system. I will be discussing system information with one or possible two very interested and I believe serious interest from my CR4 colleagues. I believe I have a new and very viable N2 powered system that will be prototyped and driven just to make sure that my claims are real and are not just numbers on paper - but real time information backed up with real time computer data and video. Just a note of reply to the CR4 associate regarding his question of the French "Air Car" - this "Guy" has taken serious money from his investors and really ripped them off. The French design does not have the capabilities to travel any real distance or handle any real time speeds. The biggest problem is compressed air subjected to freezing conditions/climates will freeze the moisture within and render the air unusable. There is no indication of any heating systems either pre or post in the French design and the other problem is the compressed air in very hot climates - vapor lock, thermal expansion and other un-predicable problems will arise in the extreme heat including explosion if not pre or post chilled - also not indicated to be included within the French design. At present the French design is probably one of the only ones that anyone is really taking a serious look at. There are others - one that uses a small block diesel engine and another that uses a Wankel type design. All this info I have found by researching everything I could get a hold of over the last 5 years or more and with help from some of my internet friends. You can draw your own conclusions on all of this. I would be happy to discuss any and all of my N2 powered system to serious people that have a real and genuine interest in my project. I have filed provisional patents to cover my system in several ways. I am a very serious designer, inventor and design engineer that uses old and new school technology as far as I can stretch it. Thank you for any input and serious comments.

Ken / Upstate NY

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#44
In reply to #36

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 2:58 PM

Ken,

Where are you on this project? is it still hot or went cold? Any new developments or milestones reached?

Please update this thread about your progress. We are all very eager to see that your concept is a success and will go the same way Guy Negre's car did.

Seshu Kanuri
http://www.azeev.com

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 4:42 PM

seshkanuri "Please update this thread about your progress. We are all very eager to see that your concept is a success and will go the same way Guy Negre's car did."

I'm positive that this project will produce a vehicle as good as Guy Negre did." "ZIP !"

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 5:00 PM

Oops!

This may be a Freudian slip on my part.

I meant "will not go the same way ...", but guess what, Guy Negre's car is getting made now by Tatas.

Good luck with the Nitrogen power.

Seshu Kanuri

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 5:13 PM

" Guy Negre's car is getting made now by Tatas."

Are you absolutely sure? Any substantiation by Tatas?

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 8:09 PM

I do not have the exact image of the Airpowered vehicle, but it looks something like this here, taken from the Delhi Auto Show held in January at the Tata Pavilion.

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 8:37 PM

seshkanuri "I do not have the exact image of the Airpowered vehicle,"

Of course NOT there is none. Check out the Tata Motors site for their small incity mini vehicle. What do you suppose powers it? Compressed air ala Guy Negre?

The Tata Nano is a city car launched by India's Tata Motors at the 9th annual Auto Expo on January 10, 2008 at Pragati Maidan in New Delhi, India

2 cylinder petrol Bosch multi-point fuel injection (single injector) all aluminium 623 cc (38 cu in)

That doesn't read or sound like an air engine to me.

What was it that P. T. Barnum was alleged to have said?

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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
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Good Answers: 114
#51
In reply to #50

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 9:00 PM

This is fun, (Not a word from the original poster, guess he ran out of airline(s) & got stranded somewhere.)

but who are you?

Please register!

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 62
Good Answers: 1
#52
In reply to #50

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 10:14 PM

The images posted here is not Tata Nano. Tata Nano is here.

__________________
Thanks.
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Anonymous Poster
#53
In reply to #52

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/03/2008 10:53 PM

seshkanuri: So what?

I see that you have NO COMMENTS on Post #52 'alleging' that it IS and ICE !

Obviously you are living in a dream world of magic propulsion methods.

Say What?

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Anonymous Poster
#37

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/14/2007 10:02 PM

The much misunderstood topic of "Heat of Compression" is so very simple and easy of understanding. When most gases such as O2, N2 and air are compressed the natural Atmospheric or Solar heat inherent in the gas is manifest by an increase in temperature of the compressed gas. That heat of compression must be removed by cooling water or it will be lost through pipe and tank walls until it has equalized the temperature of the compressed gas with that of the atmosphere. When the compressed air is used in an air turbine, rotary tool, or jack hammer, that same heat of compression is returned from the atmosphere to the expanding gas. restoring it to its original condition. Nothing could be simpler. Most experimenters with compressed air know the above explanation. Engineers and Physicists go to great pains to make it hard to understand and confuse experimenters who are hard to change.

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Associate

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 33
#38
In reply to #37

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/15/2007 10:20 PM

Excellent and true comments. BUT!! There are things that one can do to alter the "Heat of Compression" and change the way power is obtained and utilized. Utilizing the expanded and exhausted gas to help recharge and increase the power as well as using a special heating and cooling system to change the the equalization of the temperature. I have proved that it works with large industrial air wrenches that produce over 80,000 ft lbs of torque and air / N2 motors that produce over 80 HP / 95,000+ ft lbs and stay nice and cool @100 psi. There will always be skeptics, that is the way of the inventors world. Without experimentation and pushing the technology to its ultimate limit - there will be no new advancements made in anything. I am really glad and excited to read all the comments about my N2 power system - both positive and negative. Thank you.

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Associate

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 54
#43
In reply to #38

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

08/07/2007 1:07 AM

Are you using the state change in N2 to create a (Nitrogen steam)? This is the only way I see your claims being credible. Check the data from the hypervelocity test center, which uses nitrogen to produce MAC 5+ speed shock waves, but this ain't kids stuff. There is a turbine that can do the step down, but there is a limit to the step-down. The variable volume scrolling turbine. I saw my first one on a Saturn V huge thing. Think of a circular scroll turbine, but divided into three sequences set at 120 degrees to each other. The vanes have different volumes between each other depending whether you are compressing or decompressing. Centrifugal force does the work. Gas can't pass until it reaches a certain pressure, because pass through is on the inside and pressure set. RPM speed is incredible, but parts are floated on compressed air so friction is near zero. One wouldn't do it and still be car sized, you would have to place a flywheel between and stack them. I'm looking at what 10 or 15 to do the pressure drop down if there is a state change - 6 only if there isn't a state change. A reference to what I am talking about can be found on Hitachi's Medical or Industrial web sight. Hitachi has a pretty good design. N2 is a dry gas, but the re-cycle air isn't H2O would have the same negative effects you stated earlier to compressed air cars. H2O would have to be separated during the re-compression. Have I got it right?

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Israel
Posts: 2923
Good Answers: 24
#39

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/19/2007 4:47 PM

Nope. Suckers, you never run out of. They make a point to replace each other. Next, it might be "light powered cars" or something similar, as if compressing the air, wouldn't take more energy, than extracted for torque, in the first place...

The only side to make a killing of this is the happy-eager journalists, or the press in general, to publish the next upcoming revolution to save us from ourselves. Sure, they have nothing to explain when the erect-beast turn to be a wet noodle.

Those extracting the funds to waste on hopeless projects, rely on a one-shot bundle to last for a lifetime, probably invested in more likely venues. They are never the fools here. We are.

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Associate

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 33
#40

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/19/2007 4:53 PM

Guy Ne'gre has duped a lot of people with his "So called air car system" - Tata Motors will find this out when they try to produce his "stolen technology" air motor. I have personally conversed with him and I can tell you that ALL he wants is your money without any thing to give you as assurance that he has a salable - marketable system. It will not travel far- will not go fast enough and if you are going to have an air car - have an air car without the conventional gas burning engine still attached..

I have ranted enough - it is junk !!! "They Have Found A New Sucker To Take The

Bait"

NUFF SAID !!

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Israel
Posts: 2923
Good Answers: 24
#41
In reply to #40

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/19/2007 5:01 PM

There is a point however, even if compressed air is prepared in advance, and put into a tank - to drive a fan drive, a bit similar to gas turbine engines used in tanks and helicopters.

As the gas is pushed to drive the fan, not frontal to the fan's face, but sideways to the fans edge, at a point distanced enough from the axis of turn, relatively much higher torque outputs achieved, as compared to when the gas is used to drive a linear piston, which is then converted to angular momentum.

Such point, must be taken into account.

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Israel
Posts: 2923
Good Answers: 24
#42

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

07/19/2007 7:18 PM

All of this reminds me of the everlasting "Cold-Fusion" crap going on, for incredible amounts of time and money, ever since the nineteen eighties. Concerning the amounts poured into it by now, someone's got to have maid millions, personally, just from retainer salaries. I bet you none of them ever dared to invest into cold-fusion shares or research funds or bonds.

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Join Date: Mar 2005
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#54

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/04/2008 8:34 AM

Dear Guests,

Please take the time to register with CR4. It's easy to do and will allow you to be notified automatically whenever someone responds to your post. Registering with CR4 will also let others know who you are and provide added credibility to your arguments. Right now, we're all a bit confused about which Guest is which.

Moose

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Israel
Posts: 2923
Good Answers: 24
#55
In reply to #54

Re: Nitrogen powered vehicles Re: air motors

03/04/2008 1:17 PM

"...Right now, we're all a bit confused about which Guest is which..."

Which is what it's all about, hence the lack of credibility

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