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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: pipe line project - KSA ( welding inspector - CSWIP 3.1)
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Protection of Carbon Steel Pipeline from the Dead Load?

12/07/2014 3:56 AM

How to protect water carbon steel pipeline buried under 40 meter of back fill material.

After making calculations according to AWWA m11 to measure the maximum height of the back fill column that dose not affect the deflection or buckling we found it 17 meter.

after that height we have to find away to protect the pipe before continue the back filling.

The pipe is 1800 mm dia and 9.53 mm thk.

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#1

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 6:12 AM

Wow, 17m, that's about 6 stories building deep.

Your consultant knows the best thing to do, since it has to be documented with their approval before doing so. Too bad if you are the consultant.

You may find the details of your piping at the tender specification and drawing details of the owner.

Please review.

Find bearing stress of the type of soil there is. There are ways to handle such, keep in touch with civil engineers knows best on this.

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#2

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 6:43 AM

I think there is not another solution than the use of :
1.- concrete slabs
2.- pipe concrete embedment.
3.- Both.

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#3

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 10:22 AM

I'd think that the back fill operation would be the responsibility of someone other than a welding inspector.

Where are your piping/civil/mechanical engineers?

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#16
In reply to #3

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/08/2014 12:40 PM

of course major back filling activity to be monitored by civil engineering department.In one of my previous small oil field pipeline project (4 Kms) in middle east; surveying, trenching, bedding, soil test etc. were monitored by a civil qc inspector.Even there was no mechanical inspector/welding inspector or qa/qc engineer available during closing stage of that project due to inter site transfer.civil inspector did the whole qc documentation including test packages, final qc dossier, preparation of as-built drawing and project handover report.After that project, company promoted him to construction manager capacity.In another project, welding inspector did all the civil qc work as there was no civil inspector or civil engineer to monitor civil work.Anyone can expect this kind of work situation in small companies.Most of the inspectors will be mechanical or civil engineering graduates or diploma holders, so they can pick the things very fast.Enormous learning opportunity is the positive side of this system.However,so far I couldn't see such a system in big companies.

I am not OP, am Anonymous-1, still doing my pump calculation to find a solution.

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#4

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 2:10 PM

You have to pass this through to a consultant for a proper engineering analysis. Unmentioned local civil standards and site conditions alone mean anything else we propose here is little more than a guess.

Re-reading your question you're not asking about ways to protect the water pipe from damage as it is being backfilled are you?

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#5

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 2:33 PM

"How to protect water carbon steel pipeline buried under 40 meter of back fill material"You got my curiosity going, how was this project excavated? By open trench or tunneled? 40 meters is about 131.2 feet deep of back fill

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 3:03 PM

Maybe it could be filled with water and frozen, prior to back fill?

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#7

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 3:32 PM
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 3:44 PM

Unless the handsome dude in the picture is 18 meters tall, there's a problem with units, or scale or planets.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 4:39 PM

Makes you kinda wonder, huh?

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 5:01 PM

After reviewing Mr. Elden resume′, it seems that we are providing OJT for him. I don't have a problem with that, as long as there another person on the job to over see his judgement calls.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/07/2014 6:11 PM

OJT, or enabling a novice to feel empowered to make decisions they are not qualified to make?

Without proper/any/experienced oversight?

40 meters?

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/08/2014 8:00 AM

Perspective. I thought the same, until realizing the 2 excavators in the hole at the other end probably aren't made by Tinkertoy. If those are John Deere/Hitachi 400 series, or Cat 340 size the other end is at least 25 feet wide, and those stand well over 10 feet tall at the top of the cab.

And if they're still digging......

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#18
In reply to #14

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/08/2014 3:27 PM

I'm having difficulties accepting that this cut was excavated by machine.

Looks more like erosion, and I don't see any bucket/scraper marks that would indicate that it was mechanically removed. I'd expect to see some curved marks where the bucket swung through an arc as it was digging.

But, I took one elementary geology class in college. My instructor told me, one day as we were smoking, that If I was considering a major in geology I should perhaps re-think that.

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#15
In reply to #8

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

12/08/2014 8:08 AM

Agree

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#19
In reply to #7

Re: protection of carbon steel pipeline from the dead load???

01/01/2015 2:52 PM

How long is this trench? Why not use a casing pipe?

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#12

Re: Protection of Carbon Steel Pipeline from the Dead Load?

12/07/2014 6:50 PM

Suggest that you consider thicker piping for the places your installation exceeds 17 meters.

(I know, you are going to tell me that the pipe has already been ordered by your boss)

At 40 meters, you have decided to bury your piping very, very deep. Recalculate a new pipe thickness and compare the cost of the extra thick pipe versus the cost of concrete slab or other measures of protection.

As an alternate, call in a Civil Engineering consultant....... his fees will be less that the cost of digging up a collapsed section of piping.

Consider posting your question in the Civil Engineering Forum

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#13

Re: Protection of Carbon Steel Pipeline from the Dead Load?

12/08/2014 6:33 AM

How do engineers consider weight of sand,backfill,load of vehicles passing etc into calculation?.

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#17

Re: Protection of Carbon Steel Pipeline from the Dead Load?

12/08/2014 2:40 PM

A sacrificial anode would work.

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