Previous in Forum: Capacitor Bank   Next in Forum: Power Frequency
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39

ELCBs Sensitivity Requirement

12/16/2014 3:19 PM

Can ELCBS be rated at 30mA in controls circuits for pumps and motor starters without nuisance tripping?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#1

Re: ELCBs sensitivity requirement.

12/16/2014 3:45 PM

I don't know. How often do you mind having to reset a breaker.

One RS 422 transmit line requires almost 30 mA of current to drive just the terminating resistance. It seems to me that you are need to find somebody that knows more electronics than you. Your question is so incomplete, I do not know where to start.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
#2
In reply to #1

Re: ELCBs sensitivity requirement.

12/16/2014 4:06 PM

I'm not sure electronics is the right depth. , I was referring to MCCs that run industrial pumps and motors. Would harmonics from 3x7W pumps be present in the linked MCC for instance and cause nuisance tripping to 30 mA ELCBS?

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#3
In reply to #2

Re: ELCBs sensitivity requirement.

12/16/2014 4:33 PM

I said this in another thread and it needs repeating here.

Circuit breakers and fuses protect wires from igniting the insulation when too much current gets drawn by an intended or unintended load. They do not protect loads.

As such there are a lot of "rule of thumb" cable ratings that change from manufacturer to manufacturer, application, insulation used and cooling capability. Thus one cable company recommends no more than 0.15 A for 30 AWG wire while another advertises a 30 AWG Kapton insulated wire can handle 4 A.

As such it depends on a lot of different factors. Apparently you do not know the nature of these critical factors or you do not know which factors are critical. Either reason, you have not informed us enough to choose anything for you.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#4

Re: ELCBs sensitivity requirement.

12/16/2014 4:35 PM

As 30mA ELCBs are installed for personal protection, what do you think the chances would be in finding them in a motor circuit, or the control circuit for one? You need to read your local electrical standards before dabbling.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
5
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#5

Re: ELCBs sensitivity requirement.

12/16/2014 6:06 PM

Wow, somebody better tell companies like Mitsubishi that their ELCBs are only for personnel, not circuit, protection

ELCBs come in some pretty large frame sizes, up to 800 Amps in the case of Mitsubishi, something you're not likely to find in your average residence. The two sensing functions are separate; the 30ma leakage current trip point is for personnel safety, the breaker rating for downstream high current fault protection.

OPs question is perfectly valid, early ELCBs had a history nuisance tripping, especially on non-linear loads, switching transients, and non-sinusoidal waveforms, it's one of the reasons that RCD (Residual Current Device)/RCCB (Residual Current Circuit Breaker) were developed. They both perform the dual functions of CB and protection against low current ground faults, just with different circuitry, and they both come in single and three phase models.

The answer to OP's question is, it depends on the load, make, model, and age of the ELCB. You may have to experiment, or contact the equipment manufacturer, who will probably steer you away from brands that have a high incidence of nuisance tripping with their equipment.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Register to Reply 5 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

AW (1); Crabtree (1); RAMConsult (1); redfred (2)

Previous in Forum: Capacitor Bank   Next in Forum: Power Frequency

Advertisement