Are Hybrid Vehicles Worth It?

What we need is an entirely different method of powering vehicles. Hybrids substitute battery powered electric motors for transmissions allowing the ICE to "rest" until it is needed to charge the battery. I know, belabor the obvious. But all that system does is stretch out the time to the inevitable: the end of the cheap available fuel. The other factor to consider: A Hybrid vehicles battery at the current availability is over $5000 USD and availability will only DECREASE as demand increases.

What we need is a new source of energy, like HE³ fusion or Quantum Flux generators like those designed by John Searle of England. I know only three of the QF generators were ever built. So we need research.

Just my opinion Dragon

Are Hybrid Vehicles Worth It?

I guess you're asking for an opinion?

No Plenty of instances where non-hybrid vehicles (cars) get better fuel economy( and sometimes, performance), and therefor pollute less. Some petrol, some diesel. Most, boosted aspiration.

Then there's the availability of exotic materials for the power storage, and then the periodical disposal of same, to be amortised against the costs incorporated in the operation of non-hybrids.

Not to mention complexity.

It seems that a good deal of the motivation for producing hybrid cars is to make the owners 'feel good' about the ownership, and to give straight-line performance to a vehicle which may be seen as underpowered by the modern car purchaser. This is of course a function of the cumulative effect of the two power supplies carried in the vehicle.

I see the need for a paradigm shift in the focus of what personal transportation needs to effectively achieve for the paying public.

Stu.

Yes they ARE worth it. These hybrids have made tremendous progress since the manufacturers were told to take them seriously.

I drive a very economical turbo-diesel, but given 10 years, I will be pleased to see my children driving cars which they can be proud of rather than the current crop of teenage "petrolheads" who have no worries about adding to their student loans by driving highly tuned petrol cars which cannot achieve better than 30 miles per gallon.

I will be pleased to see the electric/hybrid cars reach down to their budget and out perform the petrol products in the car parks.

Modern diesels are great, but it took the German/ Austrian engineers 30 years to get them to where they are. What will the world's engineers be able to do with electric/hybrid in 30 years time?

The current crop of teenage petrol heads?

My generation ran around on mostly big V6's, inline 6's and small block V8's and almost all of them had EFI. The more mechanically inclined of us regularly junked the emissions systems to get our vehicle mileage number even higher too!

My dads generation ran around on big block V8's in big vehicles that got dismal mileage numbers but had enough weight and power they could pull a train!

My grandpas generation ran around on, um well... Okay theirs ate a lot of hay and oats but it still produced a lot of emissions anyway. And their hybrids usually where categorized as a subspecies of sorts.

I drive a very economical turbo-diesel, but given 10 years, I will be pleased to see my children driving cars which they can be proud of rather than the current crop of teenage "petrolheads" who have no worries about adding to their student loans by driving highly tuned petrol cars which cannot achieve better than 30 miles per gallon

Hugh, First fact you need to address is the one as a result of you opening statement. None of the worlds manufacturers of cars were ever told to make hybrid cars. Hybrids are entirely the result of internal marketing stragegy, grown out of think tank encouragement, and natural progression in engineering developments.

Second is that the current crop of 'petrol heads' is the direct result of the very same peer pressures your generation and mine succumbed to.

Personally, lucky to have parents who encouraged individuality, rather than 'herd thinking', and have been driving cars which regularly attained better than 40mpg since 1964. Hell, a couple of them actually reached the magic '60' mark. My kids did the same. And so, I know , will theirs.

I suppose we've an unfair advantage tho'. We are a family of auto engineers, and innovators.

Modern diesels, and indeed all IC engines, are the product of engineering evolution in ALL continents. US, here, and India, enjoying high positions in the pack.

Hybrid is a stop-gap.

PI electric will eventuate as the universal personal transport system.

I am annoyed that the current crop of parents haven't the intestinal fortitude to encourage their offspring to consume less, of everything.

Maybe also discourage the insistence on 'brand' and 'image' as necessity for existence. Encourage the thinking so that aesthetics don't get in the way of function.

First of all, 'stuff ' has to 'work'. Cheers, Stu.

Good answer, sir.

Stu,

I take your point that manufacturers were not TOLD to develop hybrids, and I do not know how the situation was dealt with in Australia - sadly we in Europe hardly ever hear of your news. However, many manufacturers were offered large state soft loans and grants on condition it was put to development of less polluting and more efficient vehicles. Hence most UK and European makers have developed hybrids as a quick solution to their otherwise iminent bankruptcy. I suggest the same pressures applied in the US.

My 10 year old turbo-diesel regularly achieves 60 mpg in general driving - so long as I do not exceed 70mph. The point which interests my students is the ability to show off in the college carpark. Hence Hybrids are excellent for standing starts and stunts, while at the same time achieving sensible mpg figures on the journey home.

While I accept that there is currently plenty of good diesel engine research all over the world, my point was that we reached the tipping point for diesels largely due to the pressures from the Green Party in Germany, and through the work of AVL, Steyr VW group and Bosch in Austria and Germany, plus some earlier research from Lotus and Ricardo in the UK. While I am aware that the Australian Orbital Company have made great strides, and hold some excellent patents for petrol engines, I am not aware of their diesel work.

I whole heartedly agree that hybrid is a stop gap, but we have to accept that looking at many technologies, most are now stop gaps, for 30 ish years, or less. How is your eight track or cassette player, or the minidisc player which I so thoughfully bought for my son, or the RDS radio which we are now replacing with DAB, or the FreeView Digital TV decoder which no longer functions as the transmission coding has been updated after 8 years.... I could go on.

Yes parents have, or should have, a responsibility to set a better example. My 10 year old car is a decision not to waste - it has only done 140000 miles and should serve me to 200000 miles without problem, so I will not waste all that manufacturing energy. That said, for 10 years I had a new car every 6 - 9 months because motor manufacturers gave their staff frequent new cars to distort the depreciation figures, and improve build volumes and profits.

I support those who buy these early hybrids. Yes it is a social statement rather than an engineering decision, but sales bring build volumes and miles of experience so the next generation can be better. Add to that the social pressure to be greener and maybe fewer will feel the need for mighty engines which idle about town at inefficient fuel consumption levels.

Good luck to us all - especially Toyota dealing with their media pressures!

The whole petrol/hybrid debate is part of a much larger question, which is how do we meet our energy needs for the next century? And I do believe that it is necessary to think in terms of the next century rather than the next few decades.

Ultimately, fossil fuels will run out, or at least become so hard to get to as to be no longer worth drilling and digging for. Not any time soon perhaps, but eventually. Furthermore, fossil fuels are by their nature pollutants. No matter what we do with them, they do release carbon, sulfur and nitrogen compounds into the atmosphere.

So, the important question is, where do we go from here in terms of our overall energy needs?

Nuclear energy, be it fission or fusion, is promising. Fission waste is a fairly manageable problem, and there is very little of it to begin with, especially in comparison to the megatons of waste produced by fossil fuel plants, and it seems likely that fusion will not have any waste products at all, once we work to bugs out of it, aside from small amounts of helium which is hardly an issue.

Solar is a very nice option, but the only way it will ever be viable as a replacement for conventional or nuclear generation is if we can work out large-scale storage or begin placing solar power stations in geosynchronous orbit. I personally believe orbital solar to be our very best option.

Once this is accomplished, the question of transportation becomes a fairly simple one. Synthetic fuels are one option, as is hydrogen from electrolysis. Furthermore, fuel cell and battery technology will continue to improve, and other power storage technologies will continue to be developed.

In the interim, battery-electric vehicles are a viable option as short-haul and commuter transport, with high efficiency gas and diesel for rural and long-haul. Of course the question of cost must be addressed with regard to battery powered vehicles, as high capacity batteries are expensive, and end-of-life disposal remains an issue.

As for the question of hybrid vehicles, I do take note that they do have the advantage of allowing their internal combustion engines to be tuned for maximum efficiency, which allows them to achieve the best possible fuel efficiency with the minimum output of pollutants. Assuming of course that the electric motor is the prime mover. In the case of hybrids which also use the ICE as a prime mover, they are required to be tuned for a much wider power-band, which must by nature compromise their efficiency.

For now though, I must agree that, at the present state of the art, too many hybrids are more of a feel-good option than a real solution

I would say in my case the answer is yes - I've owned my Prius now long enough for the mpg to pay for the premium you pay for the hybrid components. Since I was looking for a reliable mid sized family car and wasn't worried so much about horsepower, it worked out nicely. I'm not so sure the answer would be the same if you are looking for horsepower (e.g. the Honda Accord hybrid).

We have had a Prius for 6 years. In light of all the recalls ours has had only a few minor ones that we were notified in a timely manner and resolved during annual maintenance.

With only routine maintenance, tires and a new aux. battery and over 100 thousand miles we believe it is a great savings in every way esp. the gas usage. With the ups and downs of gas prices we have truly benefitted. While I cannot speak to the emissions generated in manufacturing, the true benefit this car has contributed is in the development of other fuel efficient vehicles. The more choices we have in the products we buy the better the environment will be because anything better beats what we have now.