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Hemmings Motor News has been around since 1954. We're proud of our heritage, but we're also more than the Hemmings full of classifieds that your father subscribed to. Aside from new editorial content every month in Hemmings, we have three monthly magazines: Hemmings Muscle Machines, Hemmings Classic Car and Hemmings Sports and Exotic Car.

While our editors traverse the country to find the best content for those magazines, we find other oddities related to the old-car hobby that we really had no place for - until now. With this blog, we're giving you a behind-the-scenes look at what we see and what we do during the course of putting out some of the finest automotive magazines you'll ever read.

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Models in Messerschmitts

Posted June 09, 2010 12:01 AM by dstrohl

After the streamlined cars, the alt-power GM cars, the photos from the GM Proving Ground and several others that we've yet to show, we're not quite sure what to expect from David Greenlees, save for the fact that it's all good stuff. Most recently, he sent us these couple of photos of a model posing in a Messerschmitt Kabinenroller on some sort of airfield. Unlike the previous photos, these come without any captions or other sort of explanation, so we're left in the dark about the context or the name of the lass in the striped shirt.

The background vehicles might shed some light on at least the setting for the photos. To the left of the aircraft (would any aviation-minded readers like to take a stab at identifying it?), we see what appears to be a Magirus Deutz, while in the background of the other photo, we see some vehicles of European origin and a couple possible American cars. The setting is most likely an Air Force base in Germany – Ramstein, perhaps. The Messerschmitt itself appears to be a KR175, so, assuming it's new, the photo dates from 1953 to 1955.

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#1

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/09/2010 9:01 PM

It appears to be an F80 Jet plane.

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#2

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 9:29 AM

It could be either a Lockheed F-80 Shooting Star or it's twin, the Lockheed T-33 trainer.......somehow I think it's the latter (ie, trainer version) because there are no 0.50 Cal. machine gun barrels protruding from the nose section.

One of the legendary Kelly Johnson designs of all time!

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#3

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 9:33 AM

I take back my previous statement......after looking at the enlarged pic, it's definitely a F-80 Shooting Star......notice the MG port at the bottom quadrant of the nose section (under the "T")!

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#4

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 9:43 AM

This is a strange duck.......USAF painted data badge under the cockpit ID's this as a T-33A trainer, yet it's equipped with 0.50 Cal MG's!!!!!! to my knowledge not too many T-33's were so equipped.....possibly being based on W. German soil and facing the Soviets in the early-to mid 50's may had something to do with a trainer being armed?

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#5
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Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 1:39 PM

Hey there CaptMoosie

I find a little bit on the net about two USAF variants that were armed: The AT-33A (attack version of T-33A), and the RT-33A (reconnaissance version of the AT-33A). Both were fitted with two Browning M3.

Again, just a little bit. No info about production dates or numbers.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 2:05 PM

Well, no, that isn't right either. I find this photo of the nose of an RT-33A, clearly showing camera gear but no guns.

Apparently you cannot believe everything you find on the 'net!

Now I wonder if the AT-33A info is correct? It would account for the gun slits on the nose of TR-476 shown on the blog.

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#7

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 2:57 PM

Its' quite possible that the pictured RT-33 may have once had 0.50 Cal MG's...the gun slit in the noce would have fallen in the region of that lower black rectangular paint marking/patch?

The info on the instructions for one of my RT-33A plastic models says that some variants of the RT-33 did have MG's mounted, especially those that served in the Korean War and over seas. Most CONUS-based RF-33 did not.

I have no info regarding armed AT-33's, but will check in with a friend later today and see what he remembers......hopefully....

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 3:09 PM

Here we go:

this link is an AT-33A, and clearly shows the gun slits and two seats.

this is a link to a bigger picture of the image I posted before. It is much clearer.

[edit] Yes, there is a lot of fuzz about the variants of these planes... The primeportal.net site those images come from indicate the AT-33A to be a T-33A modified by USAF, and then sold to other countries for defense. As you hint, it may be a 'third owner' modification as well!

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#8

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/10/2010 3:02 PM

One has to wonder if the T-33 "TR-476" was first registered with the bureau as a true T-33 and later modified,. otherwise it'd be ID'ed as an "AT-33" on the a/c data block...or pic was of an AT-33 before the USAF officially made the AT designation? Get my drift???

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#10

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/11/2010 8:13 AM

Hey there doorman!

Thanks for the great pics! Love the camo'd AT-33 pic especially. I wonder who painted the camo scheme on it as that is not a standard camo for the AT-33, RF-33 or T-33? Is that a/c in some museum collection by chance? It'd make some sense as most start-up air museums don't know how to really paint accurate paint schemes on Mil a/c! Amateurish attempts come to mind fore-mostly. Case in point is the Empire State Aerosciences Museum located outside Schenectady NY in the Town of Glenville.....some awful painted camo schemes applied to vintage Mil a/c, with the worse one being the camo paint scheme applied to the Republic F-105G Wild Weasel.....not even accurate to the nth degree! I know my Weasels inside and out (my late uncle flew Weasel in Nam.....3 tours of duty), and this example has to be the worse (sorriest?) yet IMHO and it's even stored outside in the elements like most of their Mil a/c collection. They should be ashamed of themselves to even call themselves a bonafided air museum because of the sorry state of each and everyone of their a/c on outside display. I don't know why the DoD even supplied them with retired a/c because of how they treat the airframes.....left to rot away and not a good practice in the least sense! No preservation what-so-ever!!!!

I used to be a long time active member of the now defunct National Warplane Museum (of Geneseo and latter Elmira NY), having been a member there for nearly 23 years and involved with many a/c restorations including a Bf-109G, a Spitfire Mk IX and a A-26B for starters........now that was one hell of a great museum while it was in existence and they know how to store, rebuilt and save the old warbirds (and modern jets), much like the Canadian Warplane Heritage (in Hamilton, ONT CA) and other North American Air Museums.

I think you're correct in your assertion about the AT-33 and the modification of standard T-33's to AT-33 for resale to other countries! I wonder if the buyers got to kick the tires first??? hahahaha

Too bad this forum doesn't have a very active aerospane blog section. This has been very fun and enjoyable!!!!

Have a great day!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Models in Messerschmitts

06/11/2010 8:26 AM

The photo of the AT-33A was taken at the Museo Aeronáutico in Montevideo, Uruguay. Plane retired from the Uruguayan Air Force.

If we can find a reliable timeline for the AT-33 conversions, and to whom they were sold, we may be able to better date and place the photos in the blog.

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