Energy vs Water – Harvesting and Water Shortages (Part 2)

In many cases (i.e., areas of the world), the following won't help much, because we can save the most water in areas other than where it is needed most, but I would like to encourage us (all) to think about how much water we "waste" flushing toilets.

It would be nice if we found some scalable ways to reduce that waste. The water is primarily used for transportation of the waste to a central location for processing--it is hard (for me) to envision an alternate simple means of transportation to such a central location.

Distributed processing of the waste (by individuals / families) is possible, and can be done safely and odorless-ly, but is probably not something most people want to get involved in.

So, creative ideas?

Maybe cleaning the water and recycling it to rivers or groundwater stores is the best we can do?

We have become dependent users of water in all our domestic, agriculture, industrial and other uses. No doubt that water usage needs a careful consideration as regard to economical usage, possible substitution means, recovery, distribution, treatment after usage, safe discharge and so on.

*All the fresh water resources are from rain falls. Just apart from rain water falling on earth, we need to develop means of harnessing water falling into the ocean.

* Flood water during rain falls needs to stored in diversion reserve dams or by artificial pumping to remote destinations like being done for pumped storage plants.

*Just apart from gravity based flow paths, balanced water supply should ensured to high lands to improve agricultural productivity as well to other remote users not in reach of gravity flow paths. If distribution is balanced most of our conflicts get closed. This means sharing between countries too.

* Seclusion of sewage, domestic, industrial effluents and agricultural run offs, effective treatment[low cost] ensuring safe discharge or agricultural usage with secluded conduction lines without affecting ground resources.

*water can be effectively replaced in domestic, industrial usages[ eg- electricity based heating energy in stead of steam, modern washing systems with air pressure] etc.

*Economy in distribution and usage are other major consideration, like pipe based transport, measured or metered usage to agriculture, domestic and industries.

Human knowledge currently is wider based and bears generous outlooks as regards to application, facilitation and exploitation of appropriate technologies.

Surely water issues are very well in our controllable technological reach,the only barrier being our limited outlook and possession as established stream users. Get out of the hell of narrow possessions and resolve water issues haunting us.

It is high time we re engineer our planet to facilitate sustainable consumption and resources distribution, the calls of duty of modern technology and policies

The story of a farmer who maintained master harvesting production of corns every year was finally attributed to his sharing practice of good seeds with co farmers around his field, which resulted in healthy crops around his fields, best pollination scope and end result of maximized yields. The secret of success story, by keeping others satisfied or meaning goodwill we meet the best.

The very same attitude should be adorned in all our consumption habits of limited resources of this wonder planet

GA s. u. You are miles ahead in sustainable concepts compared to what is happening elsewhere.

Robert E Horton first defined graphically the hydrologic cycle in 1931. This simple design we all recognize has given us the ability to measure, design, and control local and regional water systems. However, the system has been manipulated and water resources are often squandered through poor irrigation and use. Do we need to establish golf course in deserts that are green and lush? Do we need to deplete precious aquifers to support such practices? Do we need biofuels that will further squander these resources?

In northern Canada there is an abundance of fresh water that may only be matched in the Amazon basin. (The area is too harsh for crops but that may change in the future). We have native populations in the area served with municipal water that have a high percentage of boil water orders placed on them. We have to ask why? The Horton hydrologic cycle needs an expanded view so that we include historical and social issues. The natives of northern Canada had used the same water safely for centuries. They have lived in remote areas among the harshest environments found anywhere on earth. These municipal systems are often state of the art with SCADA and all sorts of monitoring. Designed and built in urban cultures. We send trainers to help the natives operate and monitor. Still the systems fail at an alarming rate. One aspect of the process that was lacking was involvement at a native social level from the get go. The input of the native cultures may have averted many boil water orders.

We have urban treated water that is highly regulated in terms of use and monitoring. Yet we have imposed vending machines blocking access to public water fountains. Is something wrong with that picture? Bottled water is often less regulated and monitored that urban water. The bottled water industry has formed a mental image of water that is most often false or exaggerated for advantage.

In short, it appears to be time to develop a new hydrologic cycle that is based in social and historical use. Water is global, is transported globally, and is essential to all life as we know it. When we contaminate water in one area it can show up in another. Trace measures of anthropogenic water can be found in almost all surface and near surface water including snows in the Arctic. Local water budgets turn out to be global water budget. What happens to the water in the Punjab can affect us all as we divert rivers and manipulate other areas to provide the water. It is time to really look at the sustainability of regions to grow crops or grow the right crops and to optimize water use.

Although my diatribe has been about water usage, it is the energy use that is equally squandered. If rice is grown in arid climates, we can expect to see squandered energy consumption (often water derived) as well as squandered water resources. The need to consider all aspects of political, economical, historical, and social needs must be incorporated in a new hydrological cycle that can then be used in a very different manner.

Not picking on anyone but are any of the points actually done in India?

I remember the minister of the environment for the Congress party a few years back, Kamal Nath, when he was at the Rio Earth Summit a few years back explaining to the world how it should be done.

One of the most polluted (if not the most polluted) places on earth is the Mahim creek/estuary (believe I have the name right) in Mumbai.

There are very few, if any, creeks within 50 km of Mumbai that you would even want to stick you hand in for fear of what is in the black, brown, dark green, purple or whatever color water that has froth on it and smells.

You are right about staying away from the creeks around Mumbai. If there is life in these creeks it may be a good place to observe some of Darwin's mutations. Brrr, handling this water sends shivers up my back. I am sure we can say the same about Haiti today (cholera outbreaks) or some of the poor cities in Africa Sahel where available water flow is low. I pointed out the problems in northern Canada's native communities, where water is abundant, to stress the need to view water as a social commodity and not just a natural resource for exploitation.

It is surprising to have any water flow from some of the creeks. Water is scarce for much of the year. The water that does get directed to the creeks is from urban runoff, overloaded sewage treatment discharges, and slum environments (pick your own locale). These areas of low water flow for a substantial part of the year, suggests to me we need better handles on sustained water usage. S.Ud's (please allow me to abbreviate your name) points were conceptual. I have no knowledge of India's ability or record of implementation of water recycling. I do suspect India has long learned to harvest water better than most western countries. Need is a good driver of implementation. I am less confident in the treatment of sewage and urban runoff in India. Water (sewage) would ideally be recycled back to the higher regions for reuse after treatment or even as part of the treatment. Direct discharge to low or no flow waterways can only lead to social and environmental problems.

Thank you Kevinm for your critical views and points. Topic of water end energy always interests me, right from childhood having hailed from an industrial pollution prone area and my current focus of research activities haul around these two issues and I strongly believe that it is the role of technology should be responsible to solve the same.

Organic resources and fossil resources need careful considerations as use for material consumption like lubricants, essential oils, chemicals, drugs, polymer raw materials, fertilizers and not mere as burning fuel oil. we need to exploit both the available non renewable as well as renewable organic resources.wisely for non burning uses.

Land and water needs careful considerations more towards food crops taking into consideration of unused land surfaces including mountain terrains ans deserts.

Mega green electricity is another major substitute to burning based heat energy resources, because electricity is a versatile energy resource and need not be derived through burning matter, the very daily technical blunder we are used to.

Well looking at the logic of source 1

link

Soybean - Umm

The last bit sums up the "spin" I think;

"Corn-based ethanol is a friggin' boondoggle. It's just about the worst source for ethanol, requiring enormous acreage and producing very little energy relative to energy inputs."

Source 2 is 2007-08 'lobbing' against the 'draft government water policy' and 'forgets' the fuel/power irrigators use pumping up from (low) rivers and channels, and the mass flow difference of 'flood' vs 'drip'.

Source 3 ? maybe better ?

Much like soybeans, where the oil is a by product [there were some pretty generous subsides]

Ethanol is nearly a byproduct of the production of brewers waste for livestock feed, the equation is a little more complex than gallons per acre. from the farmer side [many of the ethanol production plants have dairymen as major stakeholders] double subsidy ka ching...

Why would anyone hang a water for fuel assertion on the stupidest thing to make the crappiest bio-fuel out of.

Pardon me but I feel the urge to do a peter7

There is ongoing research into finding more suitable crops and improving oil yield. Using the current yields, vast amounts of land and fresh water would be needed to produce enough oil to completely replace fossil fuel usage. It would require twice the land area of the US to be devoted to soybean production, or two-thirds to be devoted to rapeseed production, to meet current US heating and transportation needs.^{[citation needed]}

Specially bred mustard varieties can produce reasonably high oil yields and are very useful in crop rotation with cereals, and have the added benefit that the meal leftover after the oil has been pressed out can act as an effective and biodegradable pesticide.^[78]

The NFESC, with Santa Barbara-based Biodiesel Industries is working to develop biodiesel technologies for the US navy and military, one of the largest diesel fuel users in the world.^[79]

A group of Spanish developers working for a company called Ecofasa announced a new biofuel made from trash. The fuel is created from general urban waste which is treated by bacteria to produce fatty acids, which can be used to make biodiesel.^[80]

[edit] Algal biodiesel Main articles: Algaculture and Algal fuel

From 1978 to 1996, the U.S. NREL experimented with using algae as a biodiesel source in the "Aquatic Species Program".^[68] A self-published article by Michael Briggs, at the UNH Biodiesel Group, offers estimates for the realistic replacement of all vehicular fuel with biodiesel by utilizing algae that have a natural oil content greater than 50%, which Briggs suggests can be grown on algae ponds at wastewater treatment plants.^[56] This oil-rich algae can then be extracted from the system and processed into biodiesel, with the dried remainder further reprocessed to create ethanol.

The production of algae to harvest oil for biodiesel has not yet been undertaken on a commercial scale, but feasibility studies have been conducted to arrive at the above yield estimate. In addition to its projected high yield, algaculture — unlike crop-based biofuels — does not entail a decrease in food production, since it requires neither farmland nor fresh water. Many companies are pursuing algae bio-reactors for various purposes, including scaling up biodiesel production to commercial levels.^[81][82]

[edit] Fungi

A group at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow published a paper in September 2008, stating that they had isolated large amounts of lipids from single-celled fungi and turned it into biodiesel in an economically efficient manner. More research on this fungal species; Cunninghamella japonica, and others, is likely to appear in the near future.^[83]

The recent discovery of a variant of the fungus Gliocladium roseum points toward the production of so-called myco-diesel from cellulose. This organism was recently discovered in the rainforests of northern Patagonia and has the unique capability of converting cellulose into medium length hydrocarbons typically found in diesel fuel.^[84]

Soy

Here's another table

WHAT has the highest yield? and "does not entail a decrease in food production, since it requires neither farmland nor fresh water"

WHEN was this known? "From 1978 to 1996"

WHERE do these journalists come from?

WHY do they hate children?

of course algae sounds like the best option

so does room temp fusion :D

the concept hasn't quite moved to a practical level yet

I'm sure some more good old fashioned crop science [cross breeding] is being applied to come up with a good compromise between indigenous locally acclimated algae & high yield species, which tend like the fungal counter part to require specific growing conditions

the NREL project got defunded when gas prices were low.

Right! So far algae is so much talk and PR but nothing concrete out.

"the NREL project got defunded when gas prices were low."

Kinda says it all.

Q. What's more quixotic than wind power in alternate energy?

Ans. Human thinking

Hi folks,

just keep in mind that biofuel is not the main product of soybeans. Protein is.

brgds

Snel

I don't know much about research into seaweed as a fuel source. We have an abundance of salt water and many desert locations could be utilized for good growing locations that way.

A desert seaweed farm could use covered pools that would not loose much through evaporation while allowing sunlight to penetrate.

Drew

The main problem of the problem is over population, your making up math formulas to fit an older math of newer growth equals economics, it's not fesible esp at 30% growth factors people wanting for there RRSP's. When poeple are fussing over wasted sewage water there's a bigger problem. Basic's you have to find a newer way to live.

It becomes growth out of spin, out of balance, you have math collaspe. An engineered eath bandaid will never work with the unforseen force of ignorance.

Near the end of ww2 Britian had almost zero waste factors once the war ended it went into collaspe and mass dumping was the newer business the new vote, the engineered throw away society. ignorance is not bliss!