Rocky Future for the Grand Canyon

This is the usual dilema, geographical features are by their very nature transient.
Ok, some may last far far longer than others but to maintain any reqires intervention.
Ponds are the classic example, being very transitory, and rivers are constantly on the move.
Do you let nature take it's course or do you intervene?
You pays your money you takes you choice.
Del

Sometimes I wonder if there is every any good from humans intervening. And if there is any good to be had from intervening with nature, it seems that the chances are good that humans are the cause of the need to intervene.

It occurred to me that a billion years ago, the government would have been on someones back to fix that erosion gully.

But seems to me - now "non management" has produced an asset - in the spirit of free enterprise - "Parks" should just up the entry price and free the taxpayer of the burden of the subsidy.

Funny, I was going to say exactly the same, but I couldn't seem to put it so eloquently!
Yeah that damn errosion gulley has got a bit out hand now....
Del

Very true in this case. This took less than 200 years.

Georgia State Parks/ProvidenceCanyon

Good morning Jaxy. Another interesting travelogue entry.

You said "The Glen Canyon Dam has turned the Colorado River into a cool, clear river. This is quite unlike the wild and muddy river it once was." OK, I would agree with this.

Then you say "The native fish are having problems surviving in these cooler waters and non-native species (like Trout) eat them." Your referenced Wiki article indicates two native trout species populate the river. Big fish eat little fish, that is the way it has always worked.

'Sometimes I wonder if there is every any good from humans intervening. And if there is any good to be had from intervening with nature, it seems that the chances are good that humans are the cause of the need to intervene.' end quote

It has something to do with a few billion people surviving.

The ultra greens would seem to prefer that 99.9% of population be killed off so they could live in a wonderful natural area. Of course they would still need the Audis and Volvos along with 4 wheelers to go see.

I guess they could have those teleported in to them.

Ah yes, the "Ultra Greens" otherwise known as those with money, to much time on their hands and no concept of history or how the real world is.

I live in an area called The Greater Toronto Area. This is the densest population in Canada. Give or take it is around 5 million. (I know that it is tiny by some standards) They wish us to go back to our pre-industrial ways. Lets go back to freezing in the dark. Yes lets go back to the out house at every home, and the communal well. Lets get rid of sanitation and nutrition.

Here are several words these twits should get to know: Polio, Typhoid, Scurvy, Dysentery, Malaria, Cholera, Botulism the Black plague, etc.

I would have included Smallpox, but our evil industrial society has managed to wipe it off the map. Polio should have followed if it was not for religion and politics.

Please do not get me wrong. I believe in protecting the environment. In my field of work I am involved with organization's, who's purpose is to reduce the environmental impact of what we do. The only way that I have seen it work, is that you get all the parties involved and agree to a goal. It not be the absolute best solution, but it may be close enough for now and that can lead to better.

Sorry: as this is yet another response that has slid or the rails.

The issue I have is with the Green idea that the earth is a museum that should be preserved in some sort of stasis. Any animal that finds advantage in a new area is called an "invader." Every last critter of a non-producing species must be saved at all cost to human life and comfort. Those little fish in Northern California that get chewed up by the irrigation pumps are in danger, so thousands of acres of farm land dies. This, to me, is a problem. I say, put a few hundred of them in a hundred gallon fish tank and turn on the pumps! Heck, you could build a little tourist shack by the road and feature the little buggers live for all to see. People from far and wide could come and be underwhelmed by how brown and one inch long they are. These Greenies need to learn something: The Earth CHANGES. It gets hotter. It gets colder. Stuff dies. Animals eat each other ALIVE! (I heard a Greenie say that the "animals interacted through predation") When a gap is opened by one species leaving, there are others waiting to take advantage in the wings. Life on Earth survives ice ages and meteor strikes far more destructive that we have been able to muster up to this point. Life finds a way. We need to live in this world and be good stewards, true. We need to reduce pollution, true. But Jaxy, does the Grand Canyon really need infrastructure? Do the air tours HARM the Grand Canyon? Will the Grand Canyon still be there in a million years? Yes. Will it look significantly different than it does now? I hope so.

Greenies need to go with the flow and learn to accept CHANGE!

-A-

I can not agree with you more. The world changes, and evolves. Species come and species go, all the time. When was the last time that you saw a T-Rex wandering down the highway? I do believe that that we should do our best to keep this world clean, we can impact animals by pollution, habit loss, etc. What the mega-greenies miss is that they and us are also animals in this bio-sphere. The human race is just another animal on "The Third Rock from the Sun", and like all other animals we wish to survive. We will do whatever we can to perpetuate the species. Do we make the best choices all the time, Just look at our brief history? In the end nature and chance will decide what lives and what dies.

So; if the Greenies are so concerned about the planet and our impact on it, then they should either leave, or dispose of them selves in an environmentally friendly way.

I have to go now, and attend to my BBQ. Can you recommend a wine that goes best with roasted Panda?

This type of green concern is bad enough but even worse are the Marc Gunthers of the world.

http://theenergycollective.com/marcgunther/46409/geoengineering-congressman-s-thumbs?utm_source=tec_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

He has decided (decided for everyone since he is the only smart person in his not so humble opinion) the geo-engineering will be required. He is kissing up to some congressman who just lost his clout with the election - fortunately the new committee chairman will probably throw his work in tha garbage can or toilet!

I don't bother to comment on Marc Gunther's posts any more as I have come to the conclusion that we have no common ground whatsoever - no basis for discussion.

He is one of the ultra greens that I bitch about for sure!

Russ

Man has been destroying the earth ever since he got here. As he evolved he developed more numerous and efficient ways to do so. The pace has accelerated over time as well. Once Earth is used up, he will have learned to travel to other Earth-like planets to begin the process again and again, on and on. Over and over this will happen until the entire universe is dead.

MAN IS A CANCER AND MUST BE STOPPED! Of course man may not have initiated the process, but be one small link in an ongoing chain that started long before he arrived here. It may already be to late as his exploration of space has already begun.

Is this Science Fiction or possible truth?

"Man has been destroying the earth ever since he got here."

Man is superior to nature and was put here to use nature. If man wasn't here what good is nature. There wouldn't be anyone or anything that could truly appreciate how grand it is.

There have been and still are instances where man has abused and misused nature, and that is a tragic thing but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be a part of nature. We just need to be good stewards of what is here. There are numerous instances where nature and animals have been better off because man was involved in their well being. That is much of the purpose of organizations like Ducks Unlimited etc. That organization and those like it have been established to enjoy nature and birds/animals and to see that they thrive for upcoming generations of people to enjoy.

The earth won't be "used up", it is much too resilient for us as humans to have that much delitarious of an impact on it. The universe was established with natural laws, patterns or cycles for it to operate in and we won't affect those natural laws and patterns/cycles. Warming and cooling cycles will come and go regardless of what we do. The oceans will change, glaciers will grow or decline in size and we don't have anything to impact those changes.

"We just need to be good stewards of what is here"

Be helpful if said Stewards had a better grasp of how it all works.

You're right, and that is why people from all philosophical backgrounds look at research, science, mathematics, history and data. All perspectives can add value. The greater the input, the better the whole view.

Each discipline has a different perspective piece of the puzzle to add. Looking at a solitary piece of the puzzle will not give a correct picture of the whole.